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Jonas found guilty

Discussion in 'Action Alerts and Advocacy' started by Supporters of Dr Myhill, Dec 20, 2011.

  1. Supporters of Dr Myhill

    Supporters of Dr Myhill Guest

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    NEWS FROM JONAS HEARING:- This is preliminary via phone and so I apologise if there are any errors which I will correct later if any of this is wrong. Stuart Jones has been found guilty of misconduct. His fitness to practise is considered impaired and he is considered to have brought the reputation of his profession into disrepute. Stuart Jones was contrite through the whole Hearing admitting all charges after initially denying them. He has been issued with a warning (caution?) which will remain on his record for 2 years.
    Snow Leopard, leela, Enid and 6 others like this.
  2. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Who is Stuart Jones?
    justinreilly and ahimsa like this.
  3. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

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    Stuart Jones reported Dr Myhill to the GMC for having "unscientific" information on her website related to autism and a few other things. He posted that he had done this on the Bad Science website under the name of Jonas. It's a long sordid horrible story.

    Kina.
  4. Supporters of Dr Myhill

    Supporters of Dr Myhill Guest

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  5. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Thanks, I'll check it out. From what Kina mentioned, it sounds like he's getting off easy.

    Wayne
  6. usedtobeperkytina

    usedtobeperkytina Senior Member

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    Why does our disease attract such drama?

    I have been in conversation with a former fibromyalgia / CFS researcher. Why did he leave? drama.

    I can't even find a knowledgeable doctor in my city of one million because they are in the closet. Why? I don't know why because I can't find them. Surely they are here, but they hide the fact. Why?

    I'm sure drama is one of the reasons.

    God bless the doctors and researchers who are willing to stick with us and publicly claim us.

    Tina
    leela, justinreilly, Tristen and 2 others like this.
  7. Andysnat

    Andysnat *****

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    Terrible decision by the HPC.
  8. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    I agree. Thank you andysnat. :>)
  9. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    We've certainly seen plenty of evidence that the medical authorities in the UK are more interested in preserving 'respect' for themselves than anything else.

    CFS patients have suffered more than most because of this, and are likely to go on doing so until significant reforms are introduced.
    Snow Leopard likes this.
  10. Francelle

    Francelle Senior Member

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    It's true that the verdict may not have sent a message to the UK medical fraternity in general but at least this Jones guy would have sweated on it, as ANY court case is scary stuff, even if it does appear that he got off lightly.

    And....... I agree what is it about this condition that causes so much negative publicity, silent (and perhaps not so silent) smirks and disbelief?
  11. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    A warning that gets removed after two years? That's nothing.
    Min likes this.
  12. sianrecovery

    sianrecovery Senior Member

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    maybe not for him, but its a change of the discourse, and a triumph for Dr Myhill's courage and persistence - it may not seem like much, but it sends a message - docs working in ME are not fair game to be publicly humiliated - and he clearly accepted he was wrong - lets see what else falls out of this one, its not over yet
    anne_likes_red, leela, Min and 2 others like this.
  13. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Quite agree sian - it has seemed a very bad year for insults from a coterie of the ignorant in the UK.
    Min and Wildcat like this.
  14. biophile

    biophile Places I'd rather be.

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    I'm no Myhill fan and reserve judgment for further investigation, but her support base exists partly because of how pathetically neglectful the medical establishment has been on ME/CFS. Compared to the suffering and poverty many of us endure daily indirectly and directly because of dubious decisions from medical authorities, who's going to give a flying toss about Jonas' situation?

    I don't know enough about the whole saga to judge whether Myhill engages in quackery as claimed by others or whether Jonas is just another pretentious tosser as implied by others. Wouldn't be surprised either way but I'm not going to be investing in much more time and effort finding out. My current impression is Myhill had a few questionable statements on her website but the response to it was generally excessive and all charges or sanctions were dropped anyway. Out of interest, what did Jonas allegedly say to be put on trial in the first place?

    The patient community are expected to happily swallow whatever the medical establishment has to say about ME/CFS and are branded irrational extremists for questioning their authority, but will Jonas and the Bad Science crew now do the same? Questionable authority doesn't feel good when the shoe is on the other foot does it?

    It's the association with somatization and medically unexplained psychosomatic functional illness, in the medical and public collective consciousness. Such an association taps into a massive pre-existing ocean of psychobabble, n00bery, incompetence, and assfacts. Carrying on a long tradition from the days of Freud and Charcot when the scientific understanding of these issues weren't beyond the stage of astrology before astronomy became dominant. A lot of society's negative attitudes towards presumed mental illness can be traced back to the public interpretation and reaction to the "work" of Freud et al. Also the association with the lazy stupid welfare sponge archetype isn't helping either, which elicits powerful responses in the human psyche.
    Snow Leopard, wdb and Wildcat like this.
  15. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Yeah... but...

    I see it as part of the same problem, if Jonas was done on some 'disrepute' thing. It's important that doctors are able to speak out about, and attack one another when there are concerns about how they are behaving. It disgusts me that the medical authorities are so concerned about maintaining respect in their profession - that's not important. There are many aspects of medicine which do not deserve to be respected, and more should be done to encourage people to speak out about that. I don't know what Jonas said about Myhill, but I don't think it should matter - he should have been allowed to say it, regardless of his role as a medical practitioner. If he was libeling her, that matter should have been deal with through the courts, rather than medical regulators.

    There's a lot of disturbing quackery arround CFS, and speaking out against it will rightly bring the medical profession into disrepute. Certainly, Esther Crawley claiming that PACE showed 30-40% of patients recovered following CBT or GET is going to cause much more harm than Myhill suggesting CFS patients take vitamin B, but that doesn't make the willingness of those regulating healthcare in this country to prioritise respect for doctors any less of a problem. It doesn't seem like this Jonas case is going to have much of an impact on anyone, so I understand you not being terribly concerned either way (I'm not sure of the details either) but I think that it is reflective of a culture which has permitted the mistreatment of CFS for decades, and is likely to go on doing so.
  16. biophile

    biophile Places I'd rather be.

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    Good points Esther. I agree that Jonas should be allowed his opinion just like Myhill is allowed hers. It would be a concern if Jonas was reprimanded mostly because of the disrepute issue rather than his actions actually being inappropriate. I don't know whether Jonas attempted to discuss his concerns about the website to Myhill first before deciding to take formal action.

    You're spot on about a culture which has permitted the mistreatment of CFS for decades and is likely to go on doing so. Having the lowest funding to societal burden ratio is a good indicator of what society thinks about the illness(es) under the CFS umbrella. Combined with the frequent ridicule we endure, and the way the medical establishment handles legitimate criticism of studies like the PACE Trial and how the results are continued to be spun by proponents, all this amounts to a giant "f*ck you" to me.
  17. Wildcat

    Wildcat Senior Member

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    .

    It should be noted that the discourse re portrayal of ME sufferers/carers//campaigners/ME Community has now been escalated on from the historic contempt/scorn/denigration, to portraying ME sufferers as so called 'Extremists', criminals, and and as virtual terrorists - some of those who support 'Jonas' have bought into those portrayals and are exploiting them.
    .
    Min likes this.
  18. Wildcat

    Wildcat Senior Member

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    If you are in any doubt about the visceral levels of anger/rage against informed ME sufferers/carers/campaigners, look no further than the blog that proclaims that its existence is to vent anger:


    Blog Comment:
    http://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2011/11/26/the-gmc-owes-stuart-jones-an-apology/
    Guy Chapman:
    The ME/CFS extremists are actively dangerous. One of them has already been convicted of criminal harassment against Simon Wessely.

    .




    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




    Please note that Mr Chapman gives no references or official evidence for his gratuitous claim of an actual criminal conviction of an ME sufferer/campaigner obviously Mr Chapmans wild accusation would not even be accepted on Wikipedia without relevant references!



    Please note that these people (Skeptiks) do not stir themselves to expose the Dangerous Quakery by the likes of Phil Parker and his NLP/Coaching/Hypnotherapy Lightning Process scam, with its wild and unsubstantiated claims (despite the numbers of ME sufferers who have become much more ill from doing the Lightning Process) ..

    .
    And despite the attempted suicide of a young ME sufferer after doing the Lightning Process, as reported by a national Norwegian Television News agency:

    http://translate.google.no/translat...o/helse-forbruk-og-livsstil/1.7891470&act=url

    The family hoped 13-year-old with chronic fatigue syndrome would be well on the course "Lightning Process". Instead, he broke down and tried to kill himself

    .
    .

    ME sufferers believe they are getting worse after they have tried the controversial training program, "The Lightning Process" (as linked from the Norwegian news Report):

    http://translate.google.no/translat...o/helse-forbruk-og-livsstil/1.7891470&act=url



    ME patient's experience with the Lightning Process (as linked from the Norwegian News Report):

    http://translate.google.no/translat...o/helse-forbruk-og-livsstil/1.7891470&act=url


    .


    UK Trading Standards and the Advertising Standards Authority have already found against Lightning Process Advertising:

    Letter from UK Trading Standards Services on Phil Parker Group and Lightning Process 30th March 2011 http://frownatsmile.wordpress.com/2011/03/31/trading-standards-on-phil-parker-group-and-lp/

    .
    And the Advertising Standards Authority made a conviction against unlawful advertising by Lighting Process Trainer Alastair Gibson, who trades under the name With Inspiration:

    http://www.asa.org.uk/Asa-Action/Adjudications/2010/6/Withinspiration/TF_ADJ_48612.aspx

    .

    UK Trading Standards Information Letter about the Spurious Health Claims of Lightning Process Trainers:

    Trading Standards on Phil Parker Group and the Lightning Process:
    http://frownatsmile.wordpress.com/2011/03/31/trading-standards-on-phil-parker-group-and-lp/
    .


    .
  19. sianrecovery

    sianrecovery Senior Member

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    To pretend that Jonas's libel, which almost shut down Myhill's practice down, is the same as him getting a reprimand is to miss the balance of power here. You may not be a fan of Myhill - I am, she's helped me a lot - but I like her other patients almost lost the power to consult her as a result of these libels (which I believe she is pursuing in a civil court as well). Andy Wright has already been shut down. I dont see any of the criticisms levelled at GET, PACE etc having the same effect - because they represent the current status quo. So - yes, we should question, not credulously accept any old quack, - but the ME community also has a vested interest in maintaing the plurality of the resources available. And the larger socio-political context is important for understanding the bigger picture
    leela and Wildcat like this.
  20. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    There are irritating people who hide behind claims of 'scepticism'... but there are irritating CFS patients too. It's best to judge people as individuals, rather than lump them in to some mass to be complained about. Just because some 'skeptiks' view people with CFS unfairly, doesn't mean that we should judge 'sceptics' in a similar way. eg: I've not actually seen anyone quote stuff from Jonas himself that's bad about CFS, and wouldn't want to condemn him just because some of his supporters are arses.
    barbc56 and wdb like this.

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