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John Caudwell

duncan

Senior Member
Messages
2,240
@Sidereal, I have to disagree with your observation that Caudwell "...is asserting something for which he has no evidence."

He reportedly has a positive lab report.

You might not hold that laboratory in high regard. That does not change the fact this man apparently has evidence of Bb infection.

Technically, he doesn't even need that. All he needs a a clinical diagnosis.
 

digital dog

Senior Member
Messages
646
There is an article in the Guardian today about Lyme. Very encouraging piece (in that it recognises the disease). It mentions the theory that chronic, long term lyme can be reactivated continually and lead to autoimmune conditions.

I think all this Caudwell coverage is changing peoples' opinions of Lyme. Personally, I think Caudwell will weave his way towards ME and CFS and the Lyme diagnosis will become part of the bigger picture. If this is the case then we can expect a rather tidy sum of money for research.

Or maybe this is all wishful thinking...
 

Bob

Senior Member
Messages
16,455
Location
England (south coast)
Personally, I think Caudwell will weave his way towards ME and CFS and the Lyme diagnosis will become part of the bigger picture. If this is the case then we can expect a rather tidy sum of money for research.
I had been wondering if that might be a possibility. Perhaps early days yet. He's already indicated that he thinks most or many people with ME/CFS might have Lyme.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,871
Does anyone know what percentage of people who have tested positive for Lyme show no symptoms? I am not thinking in terms of false positives, due to test specificity issues (ie, people who tested positive but don't actually have the infection), but rather people who may genuinely carry Borrelia, but this bacterium has not precipitated any disease in them.
 
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justy

Donate Advocate Demonstrate
Messages
5,524
Location
U.K
Does anyone know what percentage of people who have tested positive for Lyme show no symptoms? I am not thinking in terms of false positives, due to test specificity issues (ie, people who tested positive but don't have the infection), but rather people who may genuinely carry Borrelia, but this bacterium has not precipitated any disease in them.
Im not sure of the numbers but I think LLMD's are now finding quite a lrge % of the population walking about quite happily with Lyme - until perhaps something else comes along to overwhelm the immune system.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,871
Im not sure of the numbers but I think LLMD's are now finding quite a lrge % of the population walking about quite happily with Lyme - until perhaps something else comes along to overwhelm the immune system.

That's interesting.

I am just wondering what the likelihood is that many members of a family, even if not necessarily showing any symptoms or disease manifestations, may be positive for Borrelia.

If this were quite common, that one can be positive for Borrelia but have no symptoms, then on might argue that the symptoms the 11 Borrelia-positive members of John Caudwell's family have could be due to another infectious agent.
 

duncan

Senior Member
Messages
2,240
I don't think there is enough data out there on Bb latency.

For instance, how frequently does Lyme infect and then go dark? In what percent of those does the latency become active? Is there no such thing as latent Bb, simply subclinical Bb that may or may not intensify?

Researchers cannot universally agree even on whether Lyme is relapsing/remitting - primarily, I suspect, because they are so focused on acute cases, and primarily on only three species and four strains.
 

MadeleineKM

Senior Member
Messages
205
Just some short input from me, I think this link can be the beginning of explaining why some get very ill from the spirochete and why some dont get lyme from it. http://www.whatayear.org/02_10.html We know that lots of healthy people also have spirochetes but maybe the LTT test can better show if your immunesystem dont have the right response for it? I dont know, just something that crossed my mind:)
 

digital dog

Senior Member
Messages
646
Bob that is the article. Thank you for finding it.
It's not overwhelmingly interesting but the fact that I am seeing so much more on this disease is encouraging.
I personally think that a lot of people have lyme but are not symptomatic. I Would love to know why some people exhibit these awful symptoms and others don't. My guess is genetics and autoimmune problems.
 

digital dog

Senior Member
Messages
646
Plea forgive my ignorance. I'm not as scientifically minded as some of you here and find it very hard to concentrate. That being said, could Rituximab be a possible treatment for Lyme? Could it potentially be worth Caudwell investigating?
If it was then I imagine he would be willing to invest a lot of money in trials.
Just a thought...probably a silly one.
 

Bob

Senior Member
Messages
16,455
Location
England (south coast)
Plea forgive my ignorance. I'm not as scientifically minded as some of you here and find it very hard to concentrate. That being said, could Rituximab be a possible treatment for Lyme? Could it potentially be worth Caudwell investigating?
If it was then I imagine he would be willing to invest a lot of money in trials.
Just a thought...probably a silly one.
Lyme is a bacterial infection and Rituximab isn't anti-bacterial, as far as we know. So, no, I think rituximab wouldn't be a useful treatment. Not in theory anyway.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,871
Plea forgive my ignorance. I'm not as scientifically minded as some of you here and find it very hard to concentrate. That being said, could Rituximab be a possible treatment for Lyme? Could it potentially be worth Caudwell investigating?

Rituximab might be able to treat Lyme disease if there were some autoimmune aspects to Lyme. I have not seen any evidence for Lyme involving autoimmunity, but then I am not sure if anyone has ever conducted any studies on Lyme patients specifically looking for autoantibodies and autoimmune processes.

In ME/CFS, over a dozen different autoantibodies (see this table) have been detected by various studies. But I have not come across any such autoantibody studies conducted on Lyme patients.

Anyone know of any studies exploring possible autoimmune aspects to Lyme?
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,871
@Hip - sure, Allen Steere has been trying to implicate an autoimmune component to Lyme knees for several years.

OK, that's interesting.

One tell-tale sign that a given disease may involve autoimmunity is when several of its comorbid illnesses (the other illnesses that are frequently found to co-occur with the disease) are autoimmune.

In the case of ME/CFS, this disease has quite a few comorbid conditions that frequently co-occur with it, and several of these comorbidities are autoimmune, or suspected to be autoimmune, namely the following ME/CFS comorbidities: POTS, orthostatic hypotension, Sjögren's syndrome, Hashimoto's.


I don't know offhand what the common comorbidities of Lyme disease are, but if one or more of these comorbid diseases found in Lyme were autoimmune, it would provide suggestive evidence that Lyme might involve autoimmunity.

Does anyone know of any studies which have identified the common comorbidities of Lyme disease?



Incidentally, finding autoimmune aspects to a disease does not rule out the idea that an ongoing chronic infection may be driving the autoimmunity.

For example, in the case of the autoimmune disease of type I diabetes, this involves an autoimmune attack on and destruction of the beta cells in the pancreas which secrete insulin. Now in type I diabetes, patients have been found to be infected with coxsackievirus B — the same virus that is found in ME/CFS patients.

There is ongoing research to try to determine whether this coxsackievirus B infection may be the cause of the autoimmunity in type I diabetes (though at this stage, the evidence for coxsackievirus B driving the autoimmunity is not very strong).
 
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duncan

Senior Member
Messages
2,240
@MadeleineKM posted a link to an article earlier in this thread that discussed an autoimmune theory to Lyme supported by Brigette Huber. That name should ring a bell in some of the veteran PWME. :)
 

digital dog

Senior Member
Messages
646
Most of John Caudwell's family have autoimmune conditions as well as Lyme. He mentioned that in an interview which rang alarm bells with me.