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John Caudwell Daily mail

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by digital dog, Dec 13, 2015.

  1. digital dog

    digital dog Senior Member

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    Daily mail online piece about Lyme for anyone interested.
     
  2. Kina

    Kina

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    Sofa, UK
  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Apparently John Caudwell and his family, 11 of whom were found Lyme positive, were tested for Borrelia by Armin Labs in Germany, run by Dr Armin Schwarzbach, formerly of Infectolab.

    I wonder what the validation on this test is like.
     
  4. Vitalic

    Vitalic Senior Member

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    Indeed, I am rather skeptical. I tested negative by Infectolab and then positive a month later.

    (Infectolab being the lab founded by Armin before they split up and he formed his own lab, the reasons for which I have never seen detailed).
     
  5. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    You can test negative with the 2T, and then positive a month later as well. And visa versa. Testing negative or positive from one month to the next is not as uncommon as you might think with Lyme.
     
  6. gregh286

    gregh286 Senior Member

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    I see he is doubting the validity of armin tests now on noseybook.
     
  7. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    What is "noseybook"? Would you have a weblink?
     
  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    The penny dropped: I guess you mean Facebook.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2015
    gregh286 likes this.
  9. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    I don't think he's doubting the validity of Armin Labs on his FB page he is in fact saying they're the best @gregh286 - he's challenging the UK government .
     
  10. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    In terms of false positives in Lyme testing, my understanding is that the ELISA (enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay) test for Borrelia, can return false positives if there is an acute infection with viruses such as EBV, cytomegalovirus, varicella, herpes simplex virus II, and other microbial infections like Helicobacter pylori.

    The ELISA test for Borrelia also can return false positives in patients who have the autoimmune diseases of lupus or rheumatoid arthritis.

    To try to account for the possibility of these false positives, I understand that when ELISA is positive, CDC recommend a western blot (immunoblot) test for Borrelia as well, because this has a very low rate of false positives (having 99% specificity, western blot returns a false positive only in 1% of cases).

    Under CDC recommendations, using this two-tier testing (ELISA + western blot), a patient is only considered Lyme positive if both the ELISA test and western blot test come out positive.



    So that is how the CDC do it. But does anyone know how ArminLabs in Germany, who John Caudwell used to get his family tested, go about Lyme testing? Do they also use a two-tier testing system?

    For Borrelia testing, ArminLabs have:

    LTT EliSpot test (sensitivity = 84%, specificity = 94%)

    Immunoblot test (SeraSpot) (sensitivity = 60%, specificity = 99%)

    Borrelia PCR

    NK cell activity


    Do ArminLabs also use two-tier testing (perhaps the LTT EliSpot + immunoblot) to test for Lyme, does anyone know? Or perhaps used all 4 of the above tests combined in a probabilistic algorithm to create a more accurate test result?

    I am just wondering what sort of testing John Caudwell's family may have had at ArminLabs, which showed that 11 family members were Lyme positive.



     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2015
  11. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Not that its important but I tested negative on the Infectolab LTT (Armin's old lab) but positive on Igenex WB for Lyme....
     
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  12. Vitalic

    Vitalic Senior Member

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    Positive by CDC standards? I had only one band positive (plus one indeterminate) and I believe it was a non-specific band, it is still unbelievable to me what a crapshoot it is in terms of testing and the interpretation of those tests. Months of IV and oral antibiotics made no difference for me, so does one doubt the tests or the treatments? Or both?
     
  13. gregh286

    gregh286 Senior Member

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    Hi hip.
    I sent you my lyme test from armin.
    Maybe you could enlighten us when you see it.

    Thanks
     
  14. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Thanks for sending it, but unfortunately I don't have much experience with interpreting Lyme test results. I am just trying to learn more about it myself.
     
  15. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    @Vitalic
    without getting my results out I do know I had IND on band 31, I then had an epitope test on that banc which confirmed the Lyme bacteria.
    I'm reading a lot recently about the synergy between bacteria, viruses and heavy metals (mercury in my case) in the body, many of the top doctors are now focusing on gut healing, addressing toxins (metals, mould etc) and then treating the infections.
    Like you I went the wrong (what I now believe is) way and just started killing without addressing the many other issues I have first.
     
    Hanna likes this.

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