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Jim Faas comments on 'renowned' PACE trial

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by MeSci, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member

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    I'm very happy it was discussed and added this sentence to the blog , please correct my english if you see any mistkes:

    "My only question is whether it was actually the CBT that was the reason for the progress, as you mentioned in your blog. Of course, the GET (AET) group did exercises, but also the CBT group. So was it really just a CBT body & mind thing, or was it really just because of the exercises ???"
     
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  2. Solstice

    Solstice Senior Member

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    Sounds allright to me. But as I said I don't see the point in trying to discredit CBT in other diseases. Imo that's just a distraction-tactic from their side. There is ample ammo to shoot at their suggestions about ME.
     
  3. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member

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    I agree, and I'm not against CBT. It's just the recovery aspect that bothers me. And he is suggesting this in this disease as well. Or at least objective improvements and uses it to smear us at the end.
     
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  4. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member

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  5. Solstice

    Solstice Senior Member

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    Hey @Grigor, I see you've left some more comments. I was going to chime in, but apparently you've gotta take a subscription to do that? Anyway, keep up the good work.
     
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  6. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member

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    Yes you do, I took one for 10 week. It was well worth it to respond to him.
     
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  7. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155652433784770&set=a.496586774769.272981.798244769&type=3

    Anil van der Zee is with David Tuller and James C. Coyne.

    September 8 at 3:25pm ·
    Jim Faas is @ it again!!!

    Former president of the association of insurance physicians (NVVG) and Senior Staff Officer at the Dutch unemployment office (UWV bezwaar en beroep) he's in charge of 700 insurance physicians has written his second blog about PACE and ME/cvs in "Medisch Contact". Medisch Contact is the leading (online) medical news magazine in the Netherlands.

    It's again a little teamwork together with dr. Mark Vink and Anil van der Zee. It's so exciting to see this happening in the Netherlands. Things are slowly changing. Amazing. Let's keep pushing people.

    Please share!!!

    Nederlands: https://www.medischcontact.nl/opini...vsme-nog-meer-ongemakkelijke-onwaarheden-.htm

    English (Google translate): http://bit.ly/2vSKnn0

    Please leave a thank you Tweet underneath the blog on Twitter.

    https://twitter.com/medischcontact/status/906157672600363008
     
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  8. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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  9. Solstice

    Solstice Senior Member

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    Fingers itching to write a response to v.d. Meer. He's out in the open now, ready to be taken down. Van der Meer is one of the people that has made this disease so horrible for people in the Netherlands.
     
  10. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member

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    Indeed this deserves a good answer.
     
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  11. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    There doesn't seem to be much of substance to van der Meer's comment. Maybe I'm missing something in the translation?
     
  12. Solstice

    Solstice Senior Member

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    You're not. As we all know it's pretty impossible to defend the indefensible. I don't have an account on medisch contact and can't pay to get one right now. But it would be very easy to just counter him by saying:

    those other trials you mention were they all open-label with subjective outcomes too? I know only of 3 trials that used actometer data and they turned up nothing. All the other trials, like f.e. Fitnet used subjective criteria in an open-label trial, a surefire way to get biased results. Allthough at long term follow-up even Fitnet turned up empty.

    For as far as the rituximab trials are concerned, could you outline their flaws?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
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  13. thijs

    thijs

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    Don't allow them to change the subject, just stick to the CBT stuff.

    Even if the Norwegian trials would be biased, that would be no excuse for the PACE/CBT research to be biased as well.
     
  14. Solstice

    Solstice Senior Member

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    You're absolutely right there.
     
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  15. thijs

    thijs

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    Side note, this is a quote from Van der Meer, about his CFS hypothesis:
    (Rough translation)
    Source: https://www.volkskrant.nl/archief/chronische-zoektocht~a3250965/

    I think a patient with objective lactic acid increase like @Mark Vink would like to have a word with him?
     
  16. Valentijn

    Valentijn The Diabolic Logic

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    Yeah, I also get elevated lactate. Doesn't particularly correlate with muscle use or burn ... but then again, neither does "fatigue" :p
     
  17. Lou Corsius

    Lou Corsius

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    Jim Faas keeps pushing with a second blog and he got a reaction from fatigue professor Jos van der Meer. You can find that reaction here. The translation Anil made with the help of Googletranslate is not totally accurate. https://corsius.wordpress.com/2017/09/15/1190/
     
  18. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member

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  19. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    I have small amounts of vegan sugar-free chocolate each day. (2-4 squares) It's sweetened with xylitol. It's made by Plamil or another firm - quite a lot are acceptable now.
     
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  20. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member

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    According to van der Meer we have "fatigue" popping up in our brain in quite big chocolate letters so you can take all the sugar out as much as you want. The only thing that will cure you is stop eating chocolate and do CBT.
     
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