Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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Jemsek and Horowitz featured in Lyme Light story

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by roxie60, Oct 13, 2014.

  1. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    Central Illinois, USA
  2. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

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    With respect to the claim that 6-8 weeks of antibiotics typically cure borreliosis in humans, and there is no evidence of chronic Lyme in humans, consider this research on dogs. Four weeks of treatment in an animal the size of a dog is roughly comparable to 6-8 weeks treatment in larger humans. (It takes longer to eradicate infection in all physiological compartments of larger animals.) You can't reproduce this work in humans for ethical reasons: it involves infecting healthy individuals known to be free of borrelia. Other animal studies are even more out of the question in humans because they involve "sacrificing" the experimental subject to look for infection in such places as the brain or heart. Even when you are restricted to tests that do not kill the subject it takes considerable effort to identify infection of the CNS, as in this study of dogs done in 2009.

    Given the implicit facts that you can't perform directly comparable experiments in humans, and even the acceptable tests of CNS infection are very rarely done, compared with tests of serology of peripheral blood, the statement that there is no conclusive evidence for chronic Lyme disease in humans is highly disingenuous. How could there be conclusive evidence under these conditions?
     
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  3. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    Backed by funding from the Lyme Research Alliance, Dr. Kim Lewis has found Lyme persister cells in humans post treatment. That should be front page news, imo.

    Current mainstream approaches to diagnosing and treating Lyme are disturbing in many respects, not the least of which was reported by Pam Weintraub that some early definers of Lyme bifurcated late symptoms into major and minor, and decided that once the major symptoms are resolved, the patient is cured. Included under major symptoms are issues such as the rash - the rash that almost invariably is not painful or itchy, and resolves on its own - and arthritis.

    Minor symptoms? Severe fatigue, arthralgias, tachycardia, profound cognitive difficulties(we can be talking IQ declines of 10 or 20 points, or even more), and facial palsy - no matter how disabling.

    I should add that a purported result of this "split" of symptoms was an increase in cure rates. Individuals still burdened with sometimes profound "minor" symptoms were said to be afflicted by either immune system irregularities (post infectious), or afflicted with something entirely unrelated to Lyme.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2014
  4. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Senior Member

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    Theres also like 9 species of lyme and only testing for 3 lol. With plenty of potential co infections.

    The CDC said HIV was "a social issue" and refused to research/warn the public. Dont expect the US government to help, or do anything other than sabotage research by saying chronic lyme doesnt exist.

    If they really believed that, they would find out what else is going on, and they dont, because they know and we sufferers know, it IS lyme.
     
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  5. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

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    @Charles555nc

    I would like to change terminology. Infection by all species of borrelia should be called borreliosis. Lyme disease has been defined not only as infection by b. burghdorferi, but implicitly by the official test, as infection by the b31 strain of that species. It is also clear that regulators would have liked to restrict the geographical extent to the vicinity of Old Lyme, Connecticut. This did not prove possible, but they are still fighting delaying actions on all fronts.

    The b31 strain was isolated from a tick by serial dilution, which selects the most rapidly reproducing strain. This is the strain which reproduces most rapidly in the test-tube environment. It would be convenient if this were also the strain with the greatest pathogenic potential in humans, but research demonstrating this is lacking. Isolation via serial dilution pretty well neglects the possibility of chronic infectious disease.

    Anyone familiar with antibiotic-resistant bacteria can tell you the Catch-22 in making such assumptions. In other diseases, concentration on only rapidly-replicating strains has produced many cases where treatment was successful, but the patient died of poorly-determined causes listed on death certificates as generic terms like pneumonia.
     
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