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jarrow- did it change???

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by rctriplefresh5, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Studies on the Breakdown of B12 Methylcobalamin by Light

    Keywords: photodecomposition | photodissociation | photolysis | decomposition | degradation | disintegration

    I just came across a few studies on the breakdown of B12 methylcobalamin by light:

    The study: "Stability of high-dose methylcobalamin injection" found that in ampoules of injectable methylcobalamin which were wrapped in aluminum foil to protect them from light, around 92% of the methylcobalamin was still present 6 months later. So in the absence of light, methylcobalamin is reasonably stable.

    However, the above study found that an astounding 50% of the methylcobalamin in the ampoules disintegrated after only 4 hours exposure to bright light of 1000 lux (= about the light level you get at 1 meter from an ordinary 60 Watt light bulb).

    Ampoules, of course, contain methylcobalamin in aqueous solution, and whether this presence of water increases methylcobalamin's tendency to breakdown in light, I am not sure. I think Freddd did mention something about water increasing the instability of methylcobalamin, but I cannot find any studies on this.

    In any case, even if you find a good quality jar of B12 methylcobalamin supplement that is potent, it would seem prudent to wrap that jar in aluminum foil or similar, to completely protect it from light, as both glass and plastic vitamin containers tend to transit some light through them. And/or you might keep your jar of B12 methylcobalamin in a dark draw, away from light.


    By contrast, it seems B12 methylcobalamin is reasonably stable to heat: this article mentions that: "In neutral media and in the absence of light, the carbon—cobalt bond in methylcobalamin is very stable to thermal breakdown, and the molecule can even stand heating to 100°C for 20 minutes."

    The article also states that "Because methylcobalamin is highly labile upon exposure to light the whole manufacturing process and the analytical controls require an effective protection from light."
    S.A. and arx like this.
  2. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    I've seen a lot of Japanese studies on mb12. Seems they are the only ones interested!
  3. Mr. Cat

    Mr. Cat Senior Member

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    I have found Enzymatic Therapies, PL (edit-Progressive Laboratories), and AOR to be helpful. Solgar not so much. Jarrow was a couple of years ago, but not now. BTW, I just contacted iHerb and asked them to carry AOR B12, and they said they would look into it.
  4. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Hi Mr. Cat,

    What is PL?
  5. Mr. Cat

    Mr. Cat Senior Member

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    Progressive Laboratories. I mistakenly ordered the Folate+Cyano B12 from iHerb, rather than the Methylcobalamin, which they don't have. It still seems to give me a little boost, though.
  6. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Hip,

    I'm very interested to see this. Thankyou. There has been a complete silence on this subject for all too long. The problem of effectiveness is more complicated. As far as my own trials have shown, 10 minutes of room light exposure from multiple bulbs at ceiling distance and NOT MEASURED, is sufficient to cause acne and neurological ineffectivness in a 10ml colorless vial. An amber vial can stretch that out to 30 minutes or so. In a syringe with approximately 10 times the surface area per unit volume as a 10ml vial, a matter of a couple of minutes is sufficient to cause acne instead of neurological relief for me.

    I do believe that it is the aqueous solution that enables the instability. After iintial photolytic breakdown to hydroxycbl, there is an equilibrium process between aqueocbl and hydroxycbl.
    S.A. likes this.
  7. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Hi Freddd

    Interesting that you say it that the light-degraded methylcobalamin causes acne.

    I also came across this study: Time-Resolved Spectroscopic Studies of B12 Coenzymes:  The Photolysis of Methylcobalamin Is Wavelength Dependent.

    Here they found that "the photochemistry of methylcobalamin is found to depend strongly on excitation wavelength, while the photochemistry of adenosylcobalamin is essentially wavelength independent over the range studied."

    They studied the photodecomposition of B12 methylcobalamin at two wavelengths: the ultraviolet UVA wavelength of 400 nm, and the visible light wavelength of 520 nm. My chemistry is not good, and I did not understand the difference between the two results, but it involved what the authors called "prompt bond homolysis". Perhaps you can make better sense of it.

    I was looking up the UV and visible light transmission of brown/amber glass, and found that it does block most UV. I could not find much info on the UV and visible transmission of plastic. I thought that perhaps the plastic jars now used by Jarrow might allow more UV and/or visible light through, so that if these jars are sitting on the shelf for 6 months before they are bought, exposed to light, there could be more degradation in plastic jars than in the brown/amber glass jars. But without knowing what type of plastic is used for the jars, and without knowing the UV and visible light transmission figures for that plastic, this is just a guess.

    Another interesting study I found was this one: The photolysis of methylcobalamin.

    Here they found that "in the presence of excess oxygen, methylcobalamin is photolyzed at a rapid rate to yield aquocobalamin [is that an old name for cyanocobalamin or something?] and formaldehyde as the major products. One the other hand, the photolysis in the presence of only a trace of oxygen is slow, and yields vitamin B12, formaldehyde, methane and ethane. The yield of methanol is small and is not affected to any appreciable extend by the oxygen concentration."

    I wonder if the formaldehyde is responsible for your acne symptoms?

    Anyway, it seems that protecting methylcobalamin from oxygen will help slow down its photodecomposition. Presumably both oxygen in the air will increase the photodecomposition of methylcobalamin tablets, and oxygen dissolved in water will increase the photodecomposition of methylcobalamin in aqueous solution. Boiling water prior to dissolving in methylcobalamin will expel the dissolved oxygen from the water. But of course unless this methylcobalamin solution is then stored in an airtight container, oxygen from the air will slowly dissolve into the water again.
    S.A. and Asklipia like this.
  8. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Hip,

    Very Interesting. I had assumed it to be light color dependent becasue of the differences I saw. Also I have found that a deep red safelight (for fast ortho film) can be used without limit. Air is injected into a vial each time liquid is withdrawn. Acne is a common side effect of hydroxycbl injections and other. Since hydroxcbl does it in all forms and otjhers only in liquid decomposed forms it would follow that it is the hydroxcbl-aquaocbl equilibrium that dies so. I have also seen it assigned ot the aquaocbl portion exclusively by one writer. There are some reports from cyanocbl injections and cyanocbl was also vulnerable to the same photolytic breakdown and broken down mb12 injections. I have never heard any such reports from mb12 or cycbl tablets. Ten minutes of exposure is enough to cause the breakdown.
  9. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    hi jeffrez

    I second what you say here about Vitacost. I've been ordering from them for years. Less expensive and they have been very reliable, getting shipments to me quicker than any other company I've ordered from. The only downside is, I wish they carried NOW brand. I just go elsewhere if I want something from NOW.

    Rand
  10. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    That is good to know. I happen to have some red acetate filter sheets that are used for photographic darkrooms — not sure if it is the deep red variety though. I will use that to prepare any B12 methylcobalamin solutions.
  11. rctriplefresh5

    rctriplefresh5

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    the solgar sucks. I ordered 3 bottles to save on shipping and it sucks..my appetite is 0 now. I will either switch back to jarrow(which wasnt that bad) or getsome AOR15mg tabs. Im concerned abut ordering from canada..i hear they irradiate vitamins entering usa?
  12. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

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    That's interesting because I discovered a compromised bottle of Solgar b-12 just this past week, but that was one of 2 that my husband had put in the freezer. He was sure it would make no difference, and we don't yet know if it actually did, but they were almost useless. It came from iherb. I haven't yet tried the other bottle. I immediately went to the local vitamin store and got 2 other Solgar bottles there and they were fine.

    It's likely that no brand is 100% reliable -- whether due to the original supplier, the company, the store, the transport, the container, a household member putting it in the freezer, etc. -- so perhaps it would make more sense to be taking two different brands from two different sources. Of course, that might also just mask the problems of a compromised bottle and make it take longer for the person to realize what was going on. Anyway, just a thought. I saw that Fredd was taking a couple of different kinds and that got me thinking.
  13. rctriplefresh5

    rctriplefresh5

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    victronix, I take the methyl b12 for tiredness, lack of energy, appetite stimulation, and headaches. The solgar just feels cheap, and dissolvs too quickly. It feels like natural factors felt. Im almost out of my 3 bottles and am either ordering jarrow now or aor..i have to decide today..prob going with jarrow.
  14. rctriplefresh5

    rctriplefresh5

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    just ordered 120 jarrow 5000 tabs..cost 24.98 shipped not bad(used amazon)
  15. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

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    FYI, I have now added Enzymatic Therapies (ENZY) so that I am taking half Solgar, half ENZY 5x/day. Over time I realized that Solgar was not good enough alone. When I first started taking it, it was much better than the degraded Jarrow 1000 (Jarrow suddenly got worse in 2012), so I thought it would be good. But gradually, over the months, I got a lot of illnesses and stomach problems and so added ENZY and that seems to have improved things a lot. I can think straight again and am less sick now. So far!

    The Jarrow 5000 would probably be fine, although if you go through that and it doesn't seem like it's working well enough, I would try ENZY.
    jeffrez likes this.
  16. cph13

    cph13 Senior Member

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    Hello all,
    I seem to be a freak. Jarrow 5,000 only gave me severe insomnia which lasted long after I stopped it and I did give it time. Enzymatic therapy 1 a day does nothing so far for a week. No brightness, no hunger, no nothin'. I also take pure encapsulates b complex. So maybe I'm not a poor methylator????? Anyone have a take on this? Scared to increase because of the Jarrow insomnia. I normally have that issue titrating between traz, clonazapam and antihistamines to get 4 hours of sleep. Boy is my brain reallllllly messed up lately as well. I'm getting scared.
  17. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

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    Enzymatic therapy is 1000 mcg, 1/5th of the Jarrow 5000 mcg, so 1 per day may not make that much difference if you don't have a significant B-12 deficiency. You might try adding one more per day, say 1 in the morning and 1 in the evening, and see how it goes. I used to cut the 1000 pills because I couldn't handle a whole one early on. Potassium apparently can make a difference in reducing side effects. Are you taking any? I drink coconut water. I don't want to take yet another supplement, but probably will eventually get tired of drinking these bottles every day. But yeah, insomnia is a real problem to deal with. I do research on PTSD and some of the vets we tested were living on 4 hrs of sleep per night for years. It's amazing to think anyone can actually do that, but they do.
  18. cph13

    cph13 Senior Member

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    Victronix, GREAT MINDS! I just took a 2nd today for the first time. I was taking v. little potassium with the 5,000mcg of yarrow. I just had not problems. I've recently (before enzy) had some horrible cramps after walking all over Manhattan before the Thanksg. holiday. The problem lasted for 2 weeks. I was, like you, drinking coconut water than. I will have some tonight before bed just as a precaution. Oh, I've been dealing with the dreaded insomnia since 1980, 4 hours is a marked improvement for me. I really believe this is why some of us DON'T get better; sleep is imperative. Thanks for the suggestion and the reminder about the potassium. Be well.
  19. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    MethylB12 is a melatonin antagonist and can interfere with sleep. You might want to take your 2nd dose no later than noon.

    I keep mine by my bed and take my first dose as soon as I am awake enough to do so. It helps me get awake.
  20. cph13

    cph13 Senior Member

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    Thanks L. Bluestem....I did take it late last evening. Thankfully, once again, it had no effect. I may just not need methylcobalam. Do U think it wise to now add the adenocobalaman at this time. I believe I read Freddd say something about both being needed and the colbalamins being balanced or something. I'm sorry, there's so much info and my brain is so messed up I just don't remember much.

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