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Lessons from ME/CFS: Finding Meaning in the Suffering
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jarrow- did it change???

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by rctriplefresh5, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. sedonagal

    sedonagal

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    Ema, that is awesome that you are a descendant of her! I am from Mass. and my ancestry goes back to the early 1600's. My family is still there, although I live in IL.

    Please be sure to report back as to how the Bluebonnet works for you. It helps to know that the woman at WF also noticed the problem with Jarrow and now gets results with Bluebonnet.

    I would like to know why the plastic would so adversely affect the B12. Or could it be they have somehow changed the formula in a way that wouldn't legally necessitate noting that on the label? Or they changed their supplier of B12, or perhaps changed how they store/ship it so that environmental condition cause it to deteriorate.
  2. Sparrow

    Sparrow Senior Member

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    Yes, AOR is the brand name (it is short for something, but they're always listed as AOR anyway). They're a "professional brand" meaning they're geared to higher quality, more testing, more reliability, etc., and are the type of thing recommended by professionals (naturopaths, etc.) - in the category with Douglas Labs, Pure Encapsulations, etc.

    AOR also makes a hydroxy B12 sublingual that iherb carries. I wish iherb would carry more of their products, but I think most iherb customers don't realize how big of a quality difference there is sometimes between brands so just look for what's cheapest. A lot of the professional brands aren't widely carried there. Not that I can blame them. I didn't realize how much difference there was either at first.

    But yeah, I DEFINITELY noticed a difference going from AOR methyl B12 to the Jarrow in particular. And it can't be my imagination, because I didn't even know at first that there had been a switch (my husband handles filling my pill containers and didn't tell me we had run out because he didn't know it would make a difference, and I was too muddle-headed to notice the pill wasn't exactly the same). So it's possible the change was due to something else, but unlikely (nothing else in my regime or my habits changed in that time). I'll be going over to just AOR for my methyl B12 from now on.

    As a side note, I feel like it must matter what kind of plastic, or maybe that isn't the problem. Many of the high quality supplements I've had recommended to me come in plastic bottles and have worked great. I don't think that just the glass bottle alone necessarily says higher quality. There are a lot of other factors in there...
  3. sedonagal

    sedonagal

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    Sparrow, I have ordered professional supplements through http://www.pureformulas.com/index.html (PureFormulasdotcom), although looks like they do not carry AOR. I wish iherb would carry more professional lines, too.

    It will be interesting to see all of our experiences getting back on an effective MB12.
  4. rctriplefresh5

    rctriplefresh5

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    wow i nvr knew i would get this many replies to this thread!!! So it sounds like solgar and AORr are the most effective now? I don't now if I have CFS, but I take b12 for headaches, nausea appetite and metabolism problems. since taking b12 I finally got to 205 pounds of muscle. I have been lifting for yrs and was stuck aat 170...and even 160 before vitamin d.

    where does one go abut purchasing the AOR? Also should I be concerned that the two bottles of jarrow I bought had no cotton balls? they did have seals though!

    and anyone try vitacost brand?
  5. rctriplefresh5

    rctriplefresh5

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  6. rctriplefresh5

    rctriplefresh5

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    so did u get any relief this afternoon from solgar???

    also did anyone get emails back from solgar? I emailed thm a yr ago when they changed and got a standard bs reply. I will be buying solgar or AOR next...aor is kind of expensive and if im looking at the right one they use plastic..unless that is a diff kind of plastic.
  7. Sparrow

    Sparrow Senior Member

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    AOR does use plastic, as do many of the other professional brands that have been recommended to me. They've been great in my experience and trusted by the professionals I've seen, so I'm not sure how much of a factor the glass really is. Maybe it isn't as big of a problem if the manufacturer has taken that into consideration when they've designed their product, and tested its potency after storage? Maybe it does make a difference, but other factors make more of one? I've tried a few crappier things in glass bottles and great ones in plastic ones. :)

    I will not argue that some of the supplements I prefer aren't more expensive. But I would still maintain that I'm getting more for my money with them. E.g. If a supplement costs 25% more, but does twice as much, I'm still getting a good deal (not including the extra reliability, less contaminants, less dust, etc.). And given the difference in effect, there are many places where I've decided I'm vastly better off taking less of a more expensive brand than more of a cheap one. Taking a bunch of cyano B12 would be cheaper than my methyl, ad, and hydroxy, but I'm not about to do it. ;) The brand issue is similar to me.

    I've found multiple supplements where even taking many of the lower quality ones I couldn't get the same effect as just one of the professional ones. I think in many cases there is an upper limit on how well-absorbed, or how effective a particular supplement can be, where taking more has diminishing returns. And listing the same things on the label unfortunately doesn't seem to imply the same effect at all.

    Obviously I can only comment on my own personal experience with this, and there may be supplements out there that are just as good for less, but I've experienced a major difference enough times now that I just don't expect the same kind of results if I'm using a lower quality brand (and my "lower quality" brands tend to still be pretty good ones - I've never dabbled in anything sketchy or anything).

    At the least, I try to get a reliable professional brand first, so that I have a quality baseline to compare to if I decide to try to cut my costs. If I start with a lower quality brand right away, I'll never know what I might be missing.

    Sorry for the novel. :) It's just something that I wish I had known sooner.
  8. rctriplefresh5

    rctriplefresh5

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    with all that novel you nr told me where you buy it ;) I found some sites but im curious where you buy it. Im interested in the 15mg tabs that's15000 mcg right???

    I saw a site that has it for 48 bucks which is pretty cheap in my opinion as that would last me 2 months with one pill a day.

    so you would notreccomend solgar then? Also does it have a cherry taste? eliee it or not I use tese things as a morning int/candy ;) I prefer the ones that take a while to absorb. Natural factors absorbed within seconds.
  9. Sparrow

    Sparrow Senior Member

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    Sorry! For all of my good supplements, my brain is still crap. :)

    I usually get them here. They've been very prompt and will ship internationally.
    http://www.nationalnutrition.ca/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=aor methylcobalamin&All=True

    This place has been good too, and focuses more on the higher quality brands in general (though their price for the AOR methyl B12 is very slightly higher).
    http://www.healthpalace.ca/search.php?search_query=aor methylcobalamin&x=26&y=10

    There may be better places out there. That's just where I've been ordering from. But they've been reliable, and the products seem to be in good condition when they arrive. Neither has the greatest website, but good service. ;)

    The AOR ones do taste like cherry, though a slightly different vintage than the Jarrow. :) I find them a bit less tangy.

    The methyl B12s absorb pretty slowly, which I like as well. Their hydroxy sublinguals tend to disappear a little faster than I would prefer.

    I can't speak to Solgar from personal experience. I would guess it would probably fall into that "okay but not the greatest" category like so many other brands. But that's totally an assumption based on my biases, past experiences with similarly priced brands, and knowledge of which brands my naturopaths and integrative M.D. trust.

    I'll also reiterate that all of this is just my personal opinion, based on my personal experiences and the input I've received. Obviously just a patient trial-and-error-ing my way through, yadda yadda not a doctor, etc. ;)
  10. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    Man, this Jarrow CEO appears to be quite an "interesting" fellow. I'm not entirely sure I feel comfortable giving him my money now that I've done some googling!
    garcia and Victronix like this.
  11. sedonagal

    sedonagal

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    I have no problem with the Jarrow CEO at all. It certainly wouldn't keep me from buying their products which are, for the most part, quite good.
  12. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

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    I'm going to try Solgar's methyl B-12 tomorrow from the local Vitamin Express, and I'll let you know how it goes.

    That's good that there is one person so far who vouches for Blue Bonnet, even if its only a salesperson. I've used it for something before, but I forget what that was.

    I can see where people would be afraid to try anything different from what's on here, esp if those are working for you. If I hadn't had such a bad experience already I wouldn't want to risk it with new things since I'm what Fredd calls a "sensitive". But at the moment I've been forced into experimental mode and already have the various start-up symptoms from increasing my dosage, which are pluses and minuses, so, what the heck, I'll try Solgar.
  13. Sparrow

    Sparrow Senior Member

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    I paid extra attention this morning, and can report that the AOR is somewhat less "candy-like" than some of the others (though still tastes pleasant). A bit less sweet, I think. :)
  14. rctriplefresh5

    rctriplefresh5

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    thanks for the report...if i buy from the site you linked it will be under 50bucks for the 15mg shipped....not bad for a 2 month supply of quality vitamins. I jsut hope it lasts 2 months. I tae 3 5mg now...so i hope 1 15mcg is just as effective.

    I live in theUSA an am a little concerned about the long journey though! Plus I'd prefer to buy american lol(USA and canida are on good terms i hope ???? LOL)

    i will prob try solgar nxt though and maybe aor after.

    I also wanted to say that i dont think it's the plastic that is making jarrow different. I noticed no difference in the first yr of the change from glass to plastic...it has only been these last few months so i think the formula has changed.

    It should be noted though that the plastic jarrow uses contains harmful chemicals called philtaliates....idk if AOR uses phitalate free plastic.
  15. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    I too have been wondering if there was sonething wrong? Maybe they changed suppliers of mb12 crystal or their supplier changed their process or something? I am no longer hypersensitive to mb12 and can't really test it in that way any morte, I'm too healed and can only detect very slow moving neurological things. People who are at least sensitive enough to tell the difference between 1 and 2 tablets and can feel eeach dose when taken can problably do just fine for the short term part of the test. If we could have any number of volunteers to order several brands and do the testing, with the Enzymatic Therapy being the standard of comparison, we could find out now. Maybe do the 10 nominated brands including the 5 or so already named. It's easy enough to do so. I can tell you how the comparisons can be made pretty quickly by people in the early stages of healing who will be most aware of the rate of change. All people should all test all 10 brands.
  16. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    I agree. Sounds like he's late for his anger management session.
    garcia, SaraM and Adster like this.
  17. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    I have the AOR Hydroxycobalmin, haven't tried it yet, but find it interesting that it contains no citric acid or fructose -- two of the things I needed to avoid because they tend to cause dental pain and possible erosion of the tooth enamel -- yet the methyl form contains both.

    ???
  18. rctriplefresh5

    rctriplefresh5

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    ive neverr had dental pain from jarrow although i notice that istill gt canker sores which is something b12 intake should eliminate so that's how the ciitric acid effects me.

    I have swole lymph nodes today which i was keeping at bay with b12.....btt hey're swollen today =-(
  19. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I second this.. and its even true for common things like Vitamin C . A very good one is getting more types of bioflavenoids which help the absorption of it etc etc and it will work far better then a cheap one from the supermarket which one may take but not notice any affects from at all.

    So do be aware that cheap quality supplements often arent no where near the same result and the best results are often obtained by using the ones professionals are using for their patients.
  20. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

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    Okay, I tried the Solgar methyl b-12 (they also have b-12 that's described only as "cobalamin", which I presume means cyano, so you have to make sure to get the one that is methyl) and so far I feel fine, so much better than the recent incarnation of Jarrow methyl! I won't know for sure until tomorrow morning -- either I'll feel it in my hands and feet or I won't, but so far, perfect!

    They do dissolve in about 1/4 of the time it takes Jarrow to dissolve, but so far that doesn't seem to make any difference so far.

    I also take a "Triple" B-12 that I have from Highland Labs and it has always been in a solid hard white plastic bottle, probably polypropylene (whereas Jarrow is in PET), however the Highland Triple only has a small amount of methyl and the rest is the far more stable hydroxy and also adenosyl forms, so using plastic probably makes little difference for that brand. Methyl is extremely unstable.

    We know that *something* happened with Jarrow, but we can't know for sure what it is. It makes me angry because to make a change in a product like that that affects people's nervous system is really irresponsible.

    Anyway, what a relief so far to find the Solgar! I hope it stays good. I'll post to update soon.

    http://www.vitaminexpress.com/product_info.php/cPath/55/products_id/4202
    and
    http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-Sublingual-Methylcobalamin-Vitamin-B12-1000-mcg-60-Nuggets/10740
    garcia likes this.

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