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James Coyne: Before you enroll your child in the MAGENTA chronic fatigue syndrome study:

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by elliepeabody, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. elliepeabody

    elliepeabody

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    Blog about issues for parents to consider
    http://blogs.plos.org/mindthebrain/2016/09/23/before-you-enroll-your-child-in-the-magenta-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-study-issues-to-be-considered/

    James discusses the LP (SMILE study). I've asked James to remove the reference to NHS Suffolk as NHS Suffolk no longer exists, (now two Clinical Commissioning Groups) and they are not clients of PP.

    If anyone is interested this is the link to the current page regarding health professionals and LP
    http://www.philparker.org/nlp-for-doctors/


    It maybe that these organisations are unaware they are listed on PP's website.
     
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  2. elliepeabody

    elliepeabody

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    Just to update this thread. I have heard back from James and he has said he is not inclined to amend the post to remove the NHS Suffolk logo because:
    This is very disappointing especially as Suffolk Commissioning (Ipswich & East Suffolk and West Suffolk CCG's) have been so supportive of the development of a biomedical service in Norfolk and Suffolk.
     
  3. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    Yeah, he's all charm isn't he. :rolleyes:
     
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  4. Glycon

    Glycon World's Most Dangerous Hand Puppet

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    I understand the embarrassment of being mentioned in the same paragraph as LP, but James Coyne's explanation seems reasonable, to be honest.
     
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  5. Mrs Sowester

    Mrs Sowester Senior Member

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    Careful now @Glycon it's not the done thing to mention 'He Who Must Not Be Named' unless you have a flaming pitchfork at the ready ;)
     
  6. Glycon

    Glycon World's Most Dangerous Hand Puppet

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    Screw that, no one tells me what to do! ;)
     
  7. Wildcat

    Wildcat

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    When Phil Parker names his 'clients in healthcare, Nhs England, local nhs commisioning, etc.... he does not mean he provides lightning process to patients.... but he has provided nlp stress relief courses for nhs staff at some point. Thats something that Parker has exploited to give the impression that his Lightning process for ME courses are accepted by the nhs.... a great exaggeration.

    Parkers self publicising has been misinterpreted by Coyne... who does not bother to fully read the detailed material on Parker and Lightning, with links, that he has been sent.


    References in this thread to 'pitchforks' are irrelevent to the historic work pwme have done to expose Lightning process, and Parkers manipulative marketing tactics.... there is a lot of it.... most of which bandwaggon jumper Coyne has not bothered to read properly.

    Coyne neither sussed Parker's marketing MO, nor did Coyne grasp that Smile was not the pace for kids trial, as late as his powerpoint presentation in NI.

    .


    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016
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  8. Glycon

    Glycon World's Most Dangerous Hand Puppet

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    Given that LP is snake oil wrapped in pseudoscience inside quackery, no respectable organization has any business to be associated with its purveyors in any capacity. And if they are, or have been in the past, it demands public scrutiny.
     
  9. Wildcat

    Wildcat

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    Prof Leslie Findlay claimed he did a Lightning study with Parker in around 2008... it was never published.

    The kent and sussex cfs society, with its sussex cfs clinical lead Dr Micheal Broughton, and Phil Parker, introduced Lightning to the society's members some years ago.... Broughton concluded that Lightning does not help people who are ill. The local Lightning Process practitioner who worked with the sussex society and its clinical lead claimed that "her research" continued. But what she meant by 'research' was vague and unscientific....

    It looked like Parker went from county to county until he struck gold in Bath.... persuading Crawley to do a Lightning study on kids...

    All of this is well documented. The substantial and thorough MEagenda site, and other concerned activists, actively opposed and recorded all developments.
    .


    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2016
  10. Wildcat

    Wildcat

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    .
    For those interested, searches within this site will bring up the history of Parker's attempts to introduce Lightning into the nhs...... the opposition to it..... its faliure..... and Coyne's late understanding that the Smile trial was Not Pace for kids.

    .
     
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  11. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Has the blog been edited now? I didn't notice Coyne misinterpreting that. He seemed to keep it ambiguous in the same way Parker does.

    I thought that maybe this blog tried to be a bit too wide-ranging and ended up a bit hard to follow because of that (I've just realised I'm so exhausted I can barely read... maybe that made it hard to follow too). Phil Parker is such a transparent quack that it would be good to have someone really just focus on his work. He almost seems too absurd to bother with.

    edit: I've recently been talking to some people about SMILE, and quite agree about ME Agenda being an absolutely vital resource. There's almost too much to take in. When SMILE does come out though, there's a goldmine of things to be dug up.
     
  12. Stewart

    Stewart Senior Member

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    From the fact that this appeared on PLOS Blogs, rather than Coyne's 'Quick Thoughts' blog, it looks as though PLOS must have lifted their injunction on Coyne writing about PACE. I wonder what's gone on behind the scenes to bring that about.
     
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  13. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Yes - I wondered about the politics of that.
     
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  14. elliepeabody

    elliepeabody

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    Thanks for the extra info re the LP @Wildcat.

    Just a quick update, James Coyne contacted me a little while ago to let me know he has now updated the blog. Under the jpeg including the logo's of NHS Suffolk and NHS Northern Ireland he has now added the text
    This is much better than the original with just the jpeg and no comment. I am pleased that James Coyne did reconsider.
     
  15. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    I think that I get the point of Coyne's blog better after having slept on it.

    -[Not explicit but maybe part of the motivation:] Crawley is the next major problem patients face in the UK.
    -SMILE is an embarrassment. Phil Parker is an embarrassment. (There's a lot of useful details on ME Agenda.) This could be helpful for undermining Crawley more broadly.
    -There are also problems with MAGENTA, and it's justification being founded on PACE just as it's collapsing is pretty embarrassing.
    -Stopping MAGENTA in its tracks prevents another poor study, and highlights the problems with Crawley.

    I wonder if going through two studies in one blog post is a bit much for people to take in though. Also, MAGENTA is less of a soft target than SMILE, and in some ways having them side by side makes MAGENTA sound much better!
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2016
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  16. Glycon

    Glycon World's Most Dangerous Hand Puppet

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    Anyone willing to associate themselves with Phil Parker or LP should be automatically disqualified from scientific research or medical practice. I mean that quite seriously.

    I don't understand how that is even possible. I understand the motivation behind BPS/CBT/GET and how even quite intelligent and competent people can become true believers. But LP is literally a hodgepodge of bad science and pseudoscience and anyone with a high school diploma should be able to see that. :bang-head:
     

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