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ive felt too embarassed to come on this board becuase i cant go to church in so long

Discussion in 'Spirituality and ME/CFS' started by hurtingallthetimet, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. hurtingallthetimet

    hurtingallthetimet Senior Member

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    ive seen the board for spirituality and have posted on others in past but ive not been able to go to church in so long i feel so embarrassed and like i really let my kids myself and worse God down....i do pray alot....i use to enjoy going to church and taking the kids...i use to do so much..

    but someoen had ask about us going to church , i dont live near extended family..so they dont know how ill i am...just that im ill....i feel so ashamed saying we dont go like we use to...i didnt want to say we havent been in forever...

    i am at one of lonelist most lost, ill places ive ever been and i keep praying..and i feel bad for saying it but its like God doesnt hear me and i wonder if i am being punished for not going to church and worse not taking kids...
     
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  2. Gavman

    Gavman Senior Member

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    Unfortunately part of the backbone of the church seems to be to fear people into going. Afraid of going to hell, afraid of dying, afraid of doing the wrong thing to an omnipotent being. I got told i need to pray more with my illness. I have spent more time praying than full-time church goers. And when i struggle to look after myself, im not putting more of a burden on me.

    God doesn't punish people, people punish people. Only old testiment God punishes - thats the whole idea of Jesus dying on the cross for your sins. Just saying, no need to feel bad for yourself. Remember you have a chronic illness. You are not wrong or bad. Love yourself through these bad times, i never read about Jesus going and telling whores they were bad people.

    I like the quote:
    Prayer is for talking to God,
    Meditation is for listening to God.
     
    AFCFS likes this.
  3. GcMAF Australia

    GcMAF Australia Senior Member

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    My view is that God hears all our prayers, and you are not being punished.
    Certainly i dont think any one here is going to judge you badly.
    All of us, at different periods in or lives, struggle with what we should be doing, where we should be going or how we might fill that special place or niche which God has in mind for us. We often find ourselves searching and aren't always certain what it is we're looking for. Since this state of inner confusion is something we all have in common, you would think that any practical solution that provided insights or addressed an answer to this dilemma would be heralded from the highest mountaintop.
    This site may help you
    http://www.edgarcayce.org/are/spiritualGrowth.aspx

    To me the people on this site are very brave and fantastic people, including you - Hurtingallthe tiem
    our thoughts are with you.


    God bless
     
    AFCFS and Gavman like this.
  4. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    I can relate yo this. Church starts in half an hour and I'm debating with myself whether to drag myself to church or not. I think I could handle that today but having not been for so long I can't handle all the people who will want to talk to me ask how I am, am I any better etc. that would drain me. I feel I have enough energy for god but none left for the congregation.
    They are nice people don't get me wrong. But I'm really too Ill for the whole thing.
     
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  5. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    My Grandpa ran the whaling station in South Georgia during the wars.
    He said he felt closest to God on the bridge of his ship.

    What a cathedral that would have been!:)
     
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  6. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    There were years where I went to church 4-5 times a week, because there were so many activities I liked. Then that minister left, and I just don't "get" the new one.

    My relationship with God didn't change at all. I just don't pray and meditate in a church any more.

    I still get together with my "tribe" from the church when I feel up to it. They meet for lunch regularly, and I go a few times a year.

    I'm very happy with my spiritual life.
     
  7. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    yeah we live in the greatest cathedral ever imagined, what artist could create the night sky (without light pollution!), or the shearing, raw beauty of the mountains? :)

    Hurtingallthetime
    "God made the Sabbath for Man, not Man for the Sabbath!"
    churches are focal points ot share love of God and our fellow living creatures, not fear of God, not fear of religion and cliques.
    God didn't make a church then make man.
    If God punished, he'd be cruel and evil, punishment is useless except for public showing of wrongdoing and ME sure as heck ain't that and not God's work no more than all the permutations of weal AND woe the Universe he made can throw at you
    (I believe heinous criminals needjailed ot keep 'em away from harming innocents, and removing wealth gotten by wicked forms of theft, I think petty cirminals should be "Pillaried" to breka fear of them and for their society to to see their wrong...and many cirminals really need psychiatric help or prevention of the ills that screwed 'em up).
    Alas our societies have twisted punishment up with discipine, they are totally different things.
    Hell and damnation is not punishment, it's what folk bring on themselves for being so utterly evil they refuse the light of God, no compassion, no justice so they lose themselves in a nightmare darkness that is "Satan & Hell".
    (seen both sidesof the coin literally, not easy to live with such stuff, urf)

    This illness is horrifically unpleasant,I've had osme real unpleasnt experinces and this ranks tops in sheer bloody awfulness because of duration and way it even affects your mind.
    Mind and soul aren't same. Mind is biological interface as it were, and it cna suffer and be damaged and warp the programming of the inner self. We get grumpy, bitter, suffer terrible fear and panic attacks.
    Jesus was tortured and crucified, but even he was given a coup de grace', and he asked for such a terrible cup to pass, he wasn't some crazy masochistm we are not perfect, we suffer, we fear, we all have breaking points.

    We live in a fanastically beautiful world, but it's moslty people that make you cry.

    I've seen..Heaven/holy spirit...there's no words for it, one of few things that cna shut my big gob up lol.
    having said that, lol, best I cna explain it is wonderful light, filled with people of all types, time and space and physical being mean nothing, you are both individual, and yet linked in a huge "gestalt" of sharing and understanding
    there is no hate, no fear no bitterness all that is left behind
    God has no interest in punishment, harm, he simply does not do such.
    God is love, enlightenment, wonder :)
     
    Tammy likes this.
  8. hurtingallthetimet

    hurtingallthetimet Senior Member

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    thank you silverbladeTE i appreciate your thoughts...this illness is horrible...up until i got sick i was a compeletly different person, i think one of the things that make me feel so badly and i really hope no one judges because i do have wonderful, intelligent good kids...but oldest is very intelligent and very thogughtful and over time he has gotten to where he isnt sure he believes in mans version of "God"...or im not sure how to put it....
    has doesnt worship satan...in fact he doesnt believe in satan....but {I cant think of the word for it my mind is blank)
    he just doesnt believe in alot of orgnaized church and stuff...and it breaks my heart...i cant talk to anyone about it becuae i know they would think he is a devil worshiper and hes not...
    ..he is a very highly intelligent person who has done great in life, school etc...he challanges himself in many ways...very interested in science.....but it kills me that if i hadnt gotten sick and stopped taking them to church he would beilive more in the bible and what the prechers/priest say....i was raised in church and to not question God or the church....i know some bad things happen in churches but it never did in the ones i went to or the ones the kids went to that we experienced....i guess i just feel guilty....its taken alot for me to write this...

    but thanks again for your words


    Hurtingallthetime
    "God made the Sabbath for Man, not Man for the Sabbath!"
    churches are focal points ot share love of God and our fellow living creatures, not fear of God, not fear of religion and cliques.
    God didn't make a church then make man.
    If God punished, he'd be cruel and evil, punishment is useless except for public showing of wrongdoing and ME sure as heck ain't that and not God's work no more than all the permutations of weal AND woe the Universe he made can throw at you
    (I believe heinous criminals needjailed ot keep 'em away from harming innocents, and removing wealth gotten by wicked forms of theft, I think petty cirminals should be "Pillaried" to breka fear of them and for their society to to see their wrong...and many cirminals really need psychiatric help or prevention of the ills that screwed 'em up).
    Alas our societies have twisted punishment up with discipine, they are totally different things.
    Hell and damnation is not punishment, it's what folk bring on themselves for being so utterly evil they refuse the light of God, no compassion, no justice so they lose themselves in a nightmare darkness that is "Satan & Hell".
    (seen both sidesof the coin literally, not easy to live with such stuff, urf)

    This illness is horrifically unpleasant,I've had osme real unpleasnt experinces and this ranks tops in sheer bloody awfulness because of duration and way it even affects your mind.
    Mind and soul aren't same. Mind is biological interface as it were, and it cna suffer and be damaged and warp the programming of the inner self. We get grumpy, bitter, suffer terrible fear and panic attacks.
    Jesus was tortured and crucified, but even he was given a coup de grace', and he asked for such a terrible cup to pass, he wasn't some crazy masochistm we are not perfect, we suffer, we fear, we all have breaking points.

    We live in a fanastically beautiful world, but it's moslty people that make you cry.

    \
     
  9. hurtingallthetimet

    hurtingallthetimet Senior Member

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    thank you all for your kind words and the webiste that was posted....i just feel lke i let the kids down and myself and God as i said..i was raised that one has to go to church and i use to alot...but once i got sick i jsut cant...it takes all i can to do what i have to....i do appreciate your kind thoughts.....and it helps alot to know others understand and dont judge...

    i appreciate each one of your thoughts and replies :)
     
  10. caledonia

    caledonia

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    My dad, who was very religious, spiritual and regular church goer, used to worry about this when he was elderly and couldn't do things like he used to.

    First off, God understands that you're very sick and can't go to church like you would like to. The guilt you feel is caused by your particular religion, which has a requirement that you go to church regularly, and that your children should be raised in the church. This guilt comes from man, not God.

    My dad would get confused on this issue too. There is a difference between religion and spirituality. Religion (i.e. churches and the different types of religions) are man made institutions. Spirituality is your personal relationship with God.

    As much as churches would like you to believe that they are one and the same, they are actually separate. You can be a regular church goer, but not be very spiritual. You can be a non-churchgoer, but be very spiritual.

    There is a separate issue of isolation from your social circle. Churches are also sources of social interaction. If the church was a big part of your social life, then it is natural that you'll be missing seeing your friends and acquaintances from church. Humans are social creatures, and require community and social interaction to stay mentally healthy. Every single one of us with this disease goes through the same thing. What can I say, it sucks.

    Some practical suggestions - does your church have outreach for "shut-ins", such as bringing communion or making a short visit. If so, you should take advantage of this program. Perhaps there is someone who could take the kids to church for you, so you don't have to feel that they're being deprived of a religious upbringing. Are there any friends from church that you can call each week to see what that week's sermon was, and get the general gossip, so you can keep up on things and don't feel so left out.

    If you have to explain what kind of sickness you have to anybody, just tell them you have a chronic illness called ME/CFS which is similar to MS. This is short and simple and something anybody can understand and have sympathy for.

    ps. I posted this before you posted the thing about your son. Your son may have felt lukewarm about religion whether he went to church regularly or not, so please don't feel guilty about it. This doesn't mean that he is not a spiritual person.
     
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  11. GracieJ

    GracieJ Senior Member

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    Another "sore point" for many, hurting. So sorry. I know I dragged myself to church for years with ME/CFS, wanting so much to be there. It got to where I just couldn't be there, as bad as PEM got. These days, it is MCS issues that keep me home, and it just breaks my heart. I also was not ready to deal with the wave of misunderstanding that often comes in a new place, even knowing that maybe that wave might not hit. Just so exhausting hearing the usual un-support. Two of my three children are not too keen on church attendance. I know how that one feels. But, they do believe all I taught them as they grew up... they just don't buy into the emotional dishonesty.

    I've had a miracle this time (address #14 in seven years). One of the local church leaders came around looking for me, as my name had come up in the meetings as a new resident. He was gracious and understanding, and told me something that just floored me: The apartment complex I am in gets more than its share of what he called "broken, beaten up, battered, abused" people. The leaders here are very, very careful approaching new church members here who have indicated there is a problem at all. I just about cried. He got it in a way that I have never seen before. No wonder this place felt right. I haven't been contacted before this (two months) because no one wanted to assume anything, rather waiting to talk with me first and see what my NEEDS are. Their words!! Could it be the angels are directing broken people to this area??

    I've made it twice in two months, each time for 15 minutes until the wave of chemicals drove me outside. It just doesn't seem like a good thing to show up with a chemical mask on, but I may have to do that.

    Since this is a permanent address for me now, barring unforeseen circumstances, I think I can finally let my guard down on the issue and just BE finally, at least a little, even as I long to be there and serve as much as possible. It is so different when people understand what it means to be truly Christian and not simply live by rules.

    I feel closer to God the past few years than I ever have in my life. Tribulation does that.
     
  12. GracieJ

    GracieJ Senior Member

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    "In all of nature, no storm can last forever."

    Modern paraphrase from the I Ching, Dr. Wayne Dyer's version.
     
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  13. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    HurtingalltheTime , raising children in the church is a gift to them . I am blessed I grew up that way and raised my son in the church. You can do all you can at home to raise them knowing the right way if you are too ill to go. It is so important for them. Is there a friend they could go with? So many fantastic things for kids at church, Sunday school, Vacation Bible School etc. Choirs,music etc. Wonderful place to be when in middle and high school also. Would be great if they had friends they could go with. I had a great time in church activities and trips at that age.


    God never promised we would never be ill. He is with us when ill and healthy, at all times and forever. I have gotten so much help and comfort from him and I that is important for children to know. We can all see how that is nowdays... many people have no direction and do not know what is right and wrong.

    I went to church and even taught there with CFS, but when POTS started I could not go for several years. Then when I improved a bit, hubby pushed me in my w.chair there for a year. At first I couldn't sing or turn my head. Too horribly dizzy. Then slowly I was able to walk in myself and sing and be so happy again.

    You can help your kids at home, maybe with a book to guide you in lessons etc. Some structure to help.
     
  14. Shell

    Shell Senior Member

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    hurtingallthetimet. It must be so hard for you to have lost that contact with church. Don't feel you let God down with your illness. You don't. It is often said that God loves the suffering ones more.
    A friend of mine who couldn't get to her church for a long time because of chemo called it a "season". We have seasons when we get to be places, and seasons when we don't.
    We also have seasons of prayer. St John of the Cross was probably one of the most holy men in history but he wrote the book Dark Night of the Soul about a long season when prayer is very hard.
    Jesus' favourite phrase was "Do not be afraid." So don't be afraid that you are letting anyone down or failing. You are going through a season.
    You can still share your faith with your children, and they see you continue your love of God through this hideous illness.

    One thing I would say though, is there some way you can contact your church and get someone to visit you?
    Many churches have people who visit the sick. As I'm Catholic someone brings me Communion and sits a while with me when I'm too sick to get to Mass. I know other churches do something similar.
    Having someone visit - even just to read a Bible story with the children - might help mitigate your feelings of being cut off from your faith.

    gracie; It's so sad what you have been through! I know others with similar stories. I am so grateful I haven't been on the receiving end of that sort of thing. Our parish has it's "moments" shall we say, and I know our priest has suffered from some of those "moments" but thankfully, most of the time it's pretty solid.
    You show a lovely strength - just being. Good for you.

    I get my knickers in a twist at Mass sometimes when I'm twitching and jerking like a ...well, it looks weird! But no one else seems bothered. It's just me! Lesson in humility perhaps. lol.

    God bless
     
  15. LisaGoddard

    LisaGoddard Senior Member

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    Hi, My husband is a Baptist minister of a young and growing church but I have not been able to attend for a year now. I wrote a letter to the church explaining how ill I was. I won't be going back until I know that I can comfortably manage the service. I don't feel bad about it as its just the reality of the illness. Have you ever read the book the Practice of the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence? Not entirely sure why i mention it but it speaks about being close with God in the ordinary daily routine. In truth, I've been closer to Jesus over this year than ever in my life.
    You could explain to your kids why you don't go to church, pray with them and talk with them about God (which you may do already).
    Anyway you're not alone... ever.
    God bless.
     
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  16. GcMAF Australia

    GcMAF Australia Senior Member

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    What they say-
    for you hurtungallthetime
     
  17. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    Church doesnt necessarily make people closer to God.. Ive known some people who'd I'd think are closer to God who dont go to church, then some who do.

    As another suggested some ministers will actually do rounds of the sick and do home visits for an hour for prayer. I suggest to contact your pastor and see if they could do that for your family .. or maybe there is some kind of online church service you could attend?

    If God wanted you at church, if it was so important to him, wouldnt he make you well so you could go? Maybe you are right "where you are supposed to be right now", experiencing whatever you need to (not for punishment thou, think instead of lessons for self betterment.. God would want us all to be the best we can be) God is All knowing and All powerful.

    You carry soo much guilt in your life about so many things. I hope one day you can let that go and instead feel the peace. (Do you think God would like you to be feeling guilty about all the things you cant do?). Sorry as I know you've been taught not to question God but you do need to take a look at your own negative emotions to things. Its not God causing those negative emotions and maybe he wouldnt like you to be even feeling these. Maybe its time to let go of all this guilt.

    Your son.. thou you raised him you are not responsible for his personality or how he thinks about the various things in life..some people naturally seem to have a lot of faith.. while others may be very science minded and only believe in the things they can actually see. One can give 3 different children the same experience and they will all come out from this experience differently and form their own thoughts... they are not nor cannot be images of yourself.

    I'll share with you something about me which is an example of what I just said. My christian parents made me go to Sunday school from a very young age.. they made me do this till I was about 12-13 years old (at which point they were unable to make me go any more). The Christain activities were fun but I hated it.. really really hated it... why? cause I just didnt resonate to that faith and hence it made me feel false if I just went along with it all while not believing. I was raised in that faith but it just didnt feel RIGHT for me. (it was still scary and hard for me to break away from the faith as Id been so indocrinated into it.. "would I go to hell? for breaking away?" but in the end I had to be "true to myself" so did thou it took me 30 years before I completely managed to do it..such is the fear which is installed into those being brought up Christian.. all that time I was very unhappy cause I was unhappy in the religion I'd been brought up in and it wasnt right for me.. keep trying to believe it but never ever could..

    Is that my parents fault?? they tried so hard for me to be a Christian.. to the point I was forced to attend christian classes against my will (which actually caused me to hate the Christian religion even more). Believe me if your son dont resonate to a certain faith, there is NOTHING which you can do to make him "believe" in it as you do. I'd like to add.. my aunt and great uncle were actually Christian Ministers (my aunt was running 3 different congreations, my aunt there was talk after she died of having her made a saint.. but she was one short of the required amount of miracles).

    All that being said.. Ive actually seen and experienced Jesus and had him speak to me and help me when I was in trouble (something which I know many christians havent experienced.. he did that thou I arent a Christian!!!).. so yeah I believe in Jesus due to what Ive experienced but I just dont believe in God the way Christians do (I see this all in a very different way), I dont believe in the holy spirit.. .. I have my "own faith" based on my own perceptions and experiences as Im a science/very logically minded person who cant believe things by blind faith.... I do thou believe in divine angels etc and believe those help me too cause Ive felt them.

    Please dont blame yourself just cause your son as an individual has ended up thinking differently to you about things.. his path may be very different to your own. I really hope that you never due to that judge him poorly or as a bad person. Its how people act and are inside their hearts which makes them good people or not.

    best wishes and love..
     
  18. hurtingallthetimet

    hurtingallthetimet Senior Member

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    Thank you all for respoinding and helping me, as i said its took awhile to post..and i appreciate each of you responding as i know your not feeling well..

    taniaaust1 thanks for responding.....no id never ever judge anyone and not my oldest or any of my kids....he is one of the most wonderful, intellingent, logical, people you will ever met...hes never done drugs, or even drank, hes very caring, loving, and kind, he is just very logical and into science and philosophy...and figuring out how things work etc..an amazing person.....its that im afraid others will judge him because i have been around people talking about people who believe as he does, and i dont want anyone to ever think he is a bad person beucase he isnt....
    we joke that he was born being that of a 40 yr old and he raised us....and that his soul ages at that of a dogs rate of aging..

    ive watched sermons on tv and that helps some....but still alot of guilt of not going think it has to do alot with how i was raised...and yes i do carry alot of guilt over everything...if i hit a squirrel by accident i will cry....if you tell me your problems i will worry for you....i beat myself up..but im seeing wonderful conselour whos helped me so much.....she says she thinks in how i was raised and i think she is right....

    again thanks to each of you i couldnt repsond in each cause i didnt want to take up a bunch of space...having to take one of kids to school is wearing me out...as no bus etc...so ive not been on as much...use to like to at least come on respond to what i could and try to encourage others, show support etc...but just too wiped out lately..but thanks again everyone
     
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  19. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    like the others said, please don't feel ashamed or that you're being punished. the Lord understands your illness and what you can and can't do. This is not your fault.

    As a father shows compassion to his children,
    so the LORD shows compassion to those who fear* him.
    For he knows our frame;
    he remembers that we are dust.
    (Psalm 103:13-14 ESV)

    *this means honor, reverence

    If there's some other way you can fellowship with others, that might be uplifting for you. An online Bible study with other spoonies, for instance. Or as was mentioned, there might be a visitation ministry from a local church, if you're up to having visitors.
     
  20. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I always thought the original concept of church was when your family gathered together to study the bible and pray. In a strange way i think its strange to go to a building with other people that we dont really know that well to study the bible and pray and some do this in preference in spending time with their own family.

    I think the whole going to church thing was the original commercialization of religion, more people to put money in the bowl that the religous leaders decide on how to spend. I think Jesus meant people to have their church at home amongst family members and to provide guidance to their children on christian beliefs, i dont think church needs to be in such a formal way and be so rigid. I understand some people prefer to go to church and have support from others but i dont think people should feel guilty if they prefer to be at home with family members etc and not belong to a conventional church. I cant find anywhere in the bible where it says one has to go to church every sunday to be saved, believing in jesus i thought was the most important thing. If sunday was that important then we have alot of health professionals, police officers, fireman and other people who work in organisations that operate 24/7 that are destine for the worst. dont sweat on the little things like going to a 'special' building on sunday when you can do all the rights things living your life 24/7 from home and taking the moments when time permitts to pray and study the bible.

    cheers!!!
     

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