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It's settled - DHEA raises free testosterone

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by adreno, Feb 6, 2014.

  1. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    I have only been on Clomid (started at 3 times/week, but was getting more acne, which at my age, I don't like!, I mentioned this to my Dr and he said to go down to 2/week) for about a year, I have been on DHEA for years. My Integrative medicine Dr checks my hormones periodically. I was having low T for a while, I think that is why he added Clomid, not sure if he had another reason? I will try to remember to ask when I see him in April.

    GG
     
  2. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

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    if you have low energy is it good to take hydrocortisone? my PM cortisol was 2.4. my NYU endo was against this since he said I would become dependent on it for life but then he gave me androgel which gave me 0 LH.
     
  3. Soundthealarm21

    Soundthealarm21 Senior Member

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    I've got incredibly low testosterone and high DHEA-S
     
  4. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

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    are those anti aging clinics achieving good results? I've heard they do alternative treatments like IV vitamins, glutathione. there are medical textbooks on endocrinology available online and you can research LH, chronic fatigue, low cortisol, testosterone. but this one endo I went to seemed too simplistic to help even
    I think these issues are too complex that no one knows for sure what are good treatments, now the FDA is warning about heart damage from testosterone
     
  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Why I mention going to the trt and antiaging sections of the bbing forums. Plenty of research studies by them with personal experience.

    5 day clomid course Is for women trying to fall pregnant and taken at a certain time during their monthly cycle. So ver different how males use this drug which is generally lower doses for weeks or months. Some guys stay on it longterm?

    A site that may interest u is allthingsmale. Some good info there but they seem negative to anyone who doesn't have top insurance and gets blood work very regularly like weekly etc etc also dont understand cfs but good info on trt just not very friendly forum for asking questions and opinions.U will sort of understand when we read things there.

    Another good site is ttestosterone.com with a good trt forum, alot more friendly.

    Stereo typical bodybuilder may seem like a dumbarse but the older guys have aloalot of knowledge.
     
  6. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Theres alot of myths around testosterone probably because of steroids, bodybuilders, ben johnson etc and many are put forward by the medical community, so definately do your research.

    There seem to be a theory once upon a time that testosterone was the cause of heart disease, strokes, hypertension etc because they were more common in men, but this wasnt really researched. The above conditions are common in men 40/50+ and they generally have low testosterone levels. There are studies showing men with the best testosterone levels have better health outcomes from all disease compared to men with low testosterone.

    This sort of trend also goes along with prostate issues and testosterone myth, the fact is most men with prostate issues have high estrogen levels due to aging and testosterone aromatising to estrogen.

    there is research showing anabolic steroids increased cd4 T cell numbers in hiv men, low cd4 is a strong marker for poor health in HIV.

    The scare mungering, steroids turn u into a roid rager murder and u will die of liver and kidney failure is not 100% at all, plus the dosages of steroids pro bodybuilders use, compared to being used for health reasons is just so far apart its rediculous.

    What one needs to look at is that those with high normal testosterone levels have better health and quality of life compared to men with low levels of testosterone, even men with low normal levels is not optimal. Testosterone is not just about sex drive and building muscles but also helps improve insulin sensitivity, immune health, general wellbing making one more resistent to depression, more energy and improved ability to recover.

    Just compare a typical 21 y/o vs a typical 50 y/o, thats an example of good testosterone levels vs low testosterone.

    Do your own research, try to have an open mind and dont focus on bodybuilding type stigma and dont believe all the negative hype one would see in a news flash etc look for solid research.

    Google dr michael Scally and dr mooney in relation to anabolic steroids and immune function in hiv, very interesting research u will find.
     
    adreno likes this.
  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Anabolic Steroid For AIDS Therapy:
    The Potential For Immune Benefits (November, 1995)
    by Michael Mooney/Medibolics

    There are seven anabolic steroid/AIDS studies that will be completed during the next year that should bear out a very important, but as yet unacknowledged benefit that many physicians have seen consistently with AIDS patients using anabolic steroid therapy. That is, specific anabolic steroid therapy can not only increase lean body mass, which is correlative with survival, (1) but can significantly benefit meaningful immune function, increasing, for instance, the CD8+ count, which some studies suggest is highly correlative with improved survival in HIV. (2) We assert that numerous studies in the literature with other pathologies suggest this immune benefit, and also state that it is important to differentiate that many people including medical doctors have confused cortical steroids, which are immuno-suppressive by nature, with anabolic steroids, which the following studies show can be immuno-potentiating. For instance, one study on uterine cervical cancer showed that nandrolone decanoate (Deca Durabolin) can "improve cell-mediated immune response and enhance the activity of macrophages", while it "reduced the incidence of post-operative infection", at the same time that it "did not influence tumor growth". (3) In another, nandrolone also "largely counteracted the immuno-suppressive effect" of radiotherapy. (4) In a study on rheumatoid arthritis, which is a pathology that exhibits some similarities to AIDS in regard to T-cell and cytokine kinetics, CD8+ T-cells increased and rheumatoid factor concentration decreased significantly. (5) Although little has been published yet on anabolic steroids and AIDS specifically, there are some important inferences like an AIDS Treatment News interview with one pioneering doctor who asserted that about 75% of his patients on anabolic steroids experienced significant increases in CD8+ t-cells, and 40% had some increase in CD4+ t-cells. (6) It should be noted that one reason the lean body mass (LBM) gained from the application of anabolic steroids is important, is that LBM is the body's primary reservoir of the amino acid l-glutamine, which is necessary for the production of t-cells. (7,8) So we see that having LBM itself can be important for proper t-cell function. Because doctors who are using this therapy are getting so much anecdotal evidence that anabolic steroids do benefit the immune system, at least seven controlled studies will be completed this year including studies by Gary Bucher, M.D., and Daniel Berger, M.D., of the Center For Special Immunology in Chicago, one by Marc Hellerstein, M.D., Ph.D., of U C Berkeley, and one by Kathleen Mulligan, Ph.D., of San Francisco General Hospital Department of Endocrinology. These studies will not only look at LBM, but some of them will meaure CD8+'s, as well as the more commonly noted CD4+'s. Don't be surprised to see a trend towards a rise in CD8+'s. This is the anecdotal information that we am getting rather consistently from the doctors who are working with this therapy. Wouldn't that be nice? An inexpensive, readily accessible non-toxic therapy that improves CD8+'s, and possibly survival?

    References:

    1. Kotler DP, et al, "Magnitude of body-cell-mass depletion and the timing of death from wasting in AIDS." Am J Clin Nutr, 1989; 50: 444-7

    2. Schlumpberger JM, et al, "CD8+ lymphocyte counts and the risk of death in advanced HIV infection" J of Family Practice 1994;38,1(Jan):33-38.

    3. Ooshika, N., et al, "Effect of an anabolic steroid on cellular immunity and postoperative evaluation of uterine cervical cancer" Japanese J of Cancer and Chemotherapy 1984;11(10):2177-2184

    4. Huys JV et al, "Effect of nandrolone decanoate on t-cell lymphocytes during radiotherapy." Clin Therapeutics 1979; 2 (5) :352-357)

    5. Cutolo et al, "Androgen therapy in male patients with rheumatoid arthritis." Arthritis and Rheumatism 1991;Jan, 34(1): 1-5

    6. Gilden D, "Weight loss: a role for growth hormone and anabolic steroids." AIDS Treatment News 1993 November 19, #187

    7. Souba W, "Glutamine - Physiology, Biochemistry, and Nutrition" - Landis Publications

    8. Anon. "Muscle provides glutamine to the immune system." Nutrition Reviews 48:390392, 1990

    http://www.medibolics.com/as_immun.htm
     
  8. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    that's fine but what do u do after you stop producing test yourself ?
     
  9. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    You continue supplementing it. That's how TRT works. I think that ought to be clear by now.
     
    heapsreal likes this.
  10. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    TRT is for live. Some guys after awhile want to stop and there are certain restart protocols with either clomid or nolvadex and seems nolvadex is prefered, there is also HCG. My understanding is one goes off trt and takes 3 weeks for levels to drop off and then one adds nolvadex for several weeks and then tapers off, hopefully your testosterone signals from your brain to your testes starts working and u produce your own testosterone. Many find that there testosterone comes back to what it was before TRT which is low anyway??

    Its advises while on trt to take dhea and pregnenolone to back fill any other hormones that are suppressed from TRT. Thats the general plan or they take small doses of hcg. Basically its like manually controlling your sex hormones, which might sound scary but if your only producing low amounts of hormones anyway then its a no brainer. If one as testosterone within the normal range but its in the lower third of the range then i would probably start with other things first to help increase T levels. Losing weight can help alot as will additional herbs, zinc etc all worth trying first.
     
    adreno likes this.
  11. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

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    I've heard it's possible to restart your T production with clomid according to a pubmed study it may restore the HPTA access
    well androgel and T shuts down your body's production, my LH went to 0. and the doctor just gave me this weird giving up line that you're on TRT for life and you should take it if you need it. this terrible uro never told me that there was clomid or hcg, so he was shutting down my testosterone production for life by giving me these gels and wanted to implant pellets into me
    maybe there is no truth in the idea that it helps the glands rest, but I felt even more exhausted after starting and stopping TRT and my levels for T have never been so low in my life.
    by the way what is nolvadex? body builders are taking T to gain muscle for competitions they aren't looking at the long term effects of taking T
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  12. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

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    isn't this greedy uros selling drugs to people and making them dependent on them?
     
  13. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Bodybuilders arent looking at long term affects, your right there but the doses they use verses what is used for TRT are totally different. Bodybuilders can use a total of testosterone/anabolics from 400mg up to 2000mg a week or more, where TRT is 100mg a week and this dose is designed to have your levels within the upper 1/3 of the normal range. There are alot of X bodybuilders on TRT as they have stopped their own production by using these in high doses at a young age.

    With the gels and creams of testosterone its seems that they just dont give a high enough dose/or absorbed well for many to get any good benefits but seems just enough to shut down their own production. So its possible some guys on andro gel can feel worse on it then off it. Hope that makes sense. Also aromitization can be an issue for feeling crappy on TRT.

    Nolvadex is similar i guess to clomid in that its an estrogen antagonist but seems to have less emotional side effects as well as none of the vision issues clomid has.

    I think the best thing to do is find a doc who can help you. The best place/way to find one is too get on a bbing site and trt forum and put a message out for people to help u out with a doctor in your area who is good at TRT. I will stress this again, the guys on TRT are a different animal to bbers. Once u have a list of knowledgeable docs then ring around to check costs and appointment times that suit. Generally these docs know more about restarting ones own testosterone then most docs. They will know about hcg, nolvadex etc and can give u an idea on if its the best way to go or maybe to go on TRT.
     
  14. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    i guess but if u need them u need them. If you test low then you need treatments to improve your health or i guess put up with the way you feel.
     
  15. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    the percentage of people who successfully restart their testosterone production are low, so i guess your endo was skipping the middle man.
     
  16. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

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    well....my endos gave me androgel and my LH went to 0, it shutdown my production to 0 and my T level dropped when I stopped the gels. and I didn't have any major boost in cognition or energy on the gels, I was still getting exhausted from sleep apnea. it is too complex to take info off a forum...
     

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