Julie Rehmeyer's 'Through the Shadowlands'
Writer Never Give Up talks about Julie Rehmeyer's new book "Through the Shadowlands: A Science Writer's Odyssey into an Illness Science Doesn't Understand" and shares an interview with Julie ...
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Its lawsuit time . . .

Discussion in 'Action Alerts and Advocacy' started by Levi, Aug 2, 2010.

  1. Crappy

    Crappy Senior Member

    WOW I’m glad I was directed to this thread. First: let me make clear I have no legal education or experience, the only knowledge I have of the law is my father’s love for it, and the idea of achieving true justice through it. I have a little bit of knowledge, and all it has ever proven to be is; a dangerous thing. This is a very important issue to ALL of us. We have been abused, and science is now proving it, our own governments have been complacent in protecting the human rights of their own people! But, science is just now proving it. Will the law allow remedy for past behavior based on incomplete knowledge; I don’t know, hopefully someone here does.

    Only people who have been wronged can seek remedy, which why this community fits so well, ALL of us here have been wronged!

    Science has recently developed understanding to scientifically document the presence of a biological illness.

    I think the underlying issue is being missed. I see an underlying Human Rights issue here. I think this problem could be attacked on many fronts, but the largest front is Human Rights. No matter the country you are in, your rights as a human being are being trampled on. This should also make this an addressable topic for those outside the U. S. Europe prides itself on being more sensitive to human rights than the U. S.; use that, make it a competition if you have to. Question your governments’ commitments to human rights from their behavior. (Easily documentable in the modern age.) They are discriminating against you, against their own professed commitment. How can they maintain credibility, and harp about other countries violations; with such a blatant abuse occurring in their own jurisdiction?


    Doctors abused us, scientists have obviously and blatantly manipulated data to prove a political position, rather than a scientific position, our governments have allowed all of this to go on. Did anything occur that has a civil or criminal remedy? I don’t know. I want to find out though.

    The scientists that are about to be proven wrong will suffer damaged reputation but they are pushing an agenda dictated by their employer. They will just continue working as pawns for their employer and they are protected from retribution. The only harm they will suffer is among their peers, but their peers likely already know who the “hacks” and “sell outs” are. Their peers know which scientists don’t truly respect the scientific method.

    Doctors make mistakes all the time, and would all be out of business, if they were punished every time they did. Most doctors have over exaggerated egos. The only people that believe they are ALL KNOWING are themselves and others who haven’t had to deal with them much. Common knowledge is increasing.They better keep up their education if they want to practice medicine on our patient set; and not be sued for blatant incompetence. Soon, shoving anti depressants in your face and showing you the door is going to be unacceptable.

    So I guess the only place to turn would be Agencies and Politicians. Have our rights been violated? Are we in the same position now as “Slaves “were? Have we been stripped of anything like the “Indians”? Was our segment of the population ignored like “Women Voters”?

    I am indignant and angry, like everyone here. Have we been wronged? Unquestionably! Is there a remedy for us? I guess we need legal help to find out. Any good lawyer would offer free advice. If they see a strong case, and have skills in a matter like this (if my analysis means anything), they would volunteer their time.


    What we would have to provide is the evidence we have been injured by these circumstances, again, we all can testify to that.

    Carlin (profanity)



  2. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    yes, but it's so terrible, the deliberate refusal to treat, aid or investigate a disease affecting 17+ million folk (potential vastly more than that if it turns out XMRV only causes ME/CFS in a fraction of victims and different effects in others)
    no, this shouldn't be a civil lawsuit, this should be a Nuremberg War Crime style affair.

    Put it this way:
    if some scumbags had let HIV/AIDS go unchecked, to save money, because of bigotry or whatever, for 20+ years, in ways they have for ME/CFS, would they not face criminal trial in the Hague for genocide?
    There is no difference, MC/CFS kills, not nearly as fast, or often as HIV/AIDS but damn sure does kill, plus ruins lives.

    Those responsible for covering this up should face trial for their LIVES, or since we're more civilized noqadays, rot to death in jail if found guilty.

    I do nto want compensation (nice though it would be) I want justice, i want retribution, I want every SOB for the next century terrifed to even think about such sick evil!

    Horrendous that such stuff still goes on after Nuremberg should have underscored this for eternity and made it an utter anethema :(
  3. toddm1960

    toddm1960 Senior Member

    Rochester, New York
    Count me also........
  4. caledonia


    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    While I would love, love, love to sue somebody for something, especially if I could get reimbursed for years of lost wages, I don't know if it's the best idea.

    For example, what if anti-retrovirals are quite helpful, and we need to be on ARV's for the rest of our lives. They are quite expensive, so then we would want the government to pay for our ARV's (just like those with AIDS do). So suing the govt. for discrimination or whatever sounds like biting the hand that feeds us to me.

    In general, I think the best use of our money is to send it to the WPI for research. Good research, clinical trials, etc. will set us free.
  5. Nielk


    Like crappy so aptly put it: " a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"

    I think that what we need is advise from a big law firm who has experience dealing with class action suits. It is a specialty
    and they would know how to handle it.

    Before we can contact such a firm, we would have to be very clear as to who we are going to sue and why.
    We would have to clearly state how they wittingly did us harm and how it adversely effected us.
    Which might be very clear in our head but, you have to be able to write it down and clearly state what wrong has been committed and by whom.

    I have a member of my family who works for a law firm in NY who only deal with class action suits. They even have a healthcare division. Before they would take this seriously, I think as a group, we would have to decide who to sue like
    for example the CDC and clearly state what they have done to harm us with proof. One person would have to be the lead plaintiff and the rest of us would be part of the group.

    I'm sure everyone here would benefit from such a suit. forget about the monetary advantage, to put the CDC in their place and force them to do the right thing is reason enough.

    I don't think that this lawsuit would change anything as far as funding for new studies or drugs. They can't penalize us for fighting for our rights. It's our constitutional right to be treated fairly like every other citizen of this country who is sick. If anything, it would bring the plight we are in to the forefront. People would hear what we have been going through.
    Right now, the general public knows nearly nothing about ME/CFS. What they know is probably what the CDC wants them to know - that we are a group of lazy complainers!

    I think that a law firm would take it on a contingency basis as long as they think they have a strong case.

    Is there anyone here who could put the facts clearly together in writing which could be presented to a law firm?
    vli likes this.
  6. Dainty

    Dainty Senior Member

  7. Crappy

    Crappy Senior Member

    All governmental agencies charged with protecting the health and welfare have failed us. The abuse and neglect permeates the culture so severely it is hard to grasp, it seems normal even to us. As I stated in another thread, we are so easy to take advantage of, we are the least violent group around, we can barely do our own grocery shopping. As a group, when confronted, we are much more likely to "drop our head" and walk away, just because we don't have the energy to pursue a point. With so many others clamoring for their piece of the pie, we get drowned out and forgotten quickly, because the others simply aren't as impaired as us.

    It seems so discriminatory in retrospect.

    1. Recuperative treatments withheld because of financial status?

    2. Pharmaceutical lobbying to withhold less costly treatments, and block options to allow time for conglomerates to develop a patent protected option? (Ampilgen and GcMAF come to mind.) At the same time funding research to discredit some maybe easier, natural or less costly alternatives. I would think this trail of documentation could be used to help prosecute their actions, especially now that they have become so brazen about it.

    3. The FDA's abuse of power and ties to pharmaceutical giants really needs to be exposed for what it is here, and give this to a Judge to decide, the FDA has truly lost its way.

    4. Health insurance companies influencing policy for the same motivations as those listed for pharmaceuticals and governments. see http://www.metropulse.com/news/2011/jan/12/wendell-potters-defection-health-care-pr/

    5. Discriminatory actions, giving preferential funding to squeaky wheel projects like HIV, over CFS.

    6. CFS/ME being intentionally orphaned because of the concept it does not outright kill (really only because understanding is elementary and deaths are not being recognized correctly), making it a less romantic illness to fund and combat. Giving it "back-burner urgency" from this misconception.

    Realistically the damage is too wide, and too deep to properly estimate.

    7. The medical communities’ unwillingness to recognize the illness and treat it as a true health threat. Doctors personal need to save lives versus "think" to save lives. The average doctor would much rather achieve immediate gratification from adrenaline addiction or for their ego by snatching a life from the jaws of death; other than invest the time and effort to think through a complicated illness like ours. They would rather wait until we are on deaths door.

    8. The governments stalling research so the recognized liability of a previously unrecognized illness does not wreak a financial heavy toll.

    The blatant disregard is so widespread it is hard to quantify. But we must quantify it in order to have a lawyer look at it and be able to grasp the depth of our grievances. We need to pool our gripes into a list, begin backing the claims with evidence that an attorney can see and verify if he wants, and find a lawyer like Gerry Spence who use to live for cases to knock governments down a notch or two. If a lawyer like him just signed onto a case, the defendants began to quake in their shoes, it was fascinating and entertaining to watch.
  8. markmc20001

    markmc20001 Guest

    couple points on lawsuit

    First, let me say I don't want to sue any doctors regardless.

    All my anger is directed at governments, and lobbyists (they might not be lobbyists, but for simplification purposes lets call them lobbyists)

    I think a lawsuit is a great idea if it can be effectively used as a tool to get publicity for lack of action by CDC/MRC, and also get the ball rolling for funding legitimate research by researchers the community respects.

    To me it is about ending the useless funding for psychological stuff engineered to marginalize us, and getting funding for measuring and treating neuro-immune disease.

    Some of the possible crimes against CFS/ME patients:

    1) not funding research in biological causes, even though evidence has been there for years. I keep going back to the Elane Defreidas situation where she found a viral link and her career was damaged and the whole thing burried. I'm sure there must have been many other suggestions of a viral cause along the way. I don't think the government has made any genuine attempts to get real research moving related to infectious causes. Don;t CFS patients have more infections? why hasn't anything been done about that.

    2) What about the money that was supposed to be for CFS/ME research yet was allocated to other programs in the CDC. Anything come of that? I know there was some admission to that, but what about the damages from no good research caused by the mis-allocation of funds. shouldn't have the funds been doubled up?

    3) WHat about Osler's web? wasn't that about a senator or congressman that proved wrongdoing on the part of the government?

    4) what about letting the CDC leadership allow REEVES go on for years with zillions of dollars of funding for studies that have done absolutely no good for patients. It has really made us all look like fools to any employers or friends who don't take us seriously.

    In fact, it would be good to see how the budget for the CDC has been spent for the last 30 years. That could be very damaging in itself it the numbers of people with CFS are under funded in comparision to other diseases. So if 1 million people in the US have CFS/ME, but only 2 million a year is spent and it is all on CBT studies. That may look bad if there are a thousand people with some other disease that get way more money.

    5) what about ll the CFSAC recommendations? haven't doctors been going there year after year saying the same stuff needs to be done? it's all in black and white but nothing has happened. That has got to be very telling. It is not llike nobody asked or notified them of there screw ups. Don;t you thinkk they have gotten about a zillion emails for the last 30 years? I know I have sent them two personally.
  9. Tulip

    Tulip Guest

    Is anything happening with this idea still or has it died? :Retro smile:
  10. lisann


    I'm just seeing this for the first time today, and was wondering the same thing... is anyone still thinking of or planning on doing this? I would LOVE to see the CDC in court over 'cfs'!
  11. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

    I doubt you could find a lawyer that would be willing to take the case. Basically you can't win a lawsuit against a US government agency (in essence, the government itself) for operating in a way that you don't approve of. If specific people are lying, etc, then maybe - but that's not the agency. If it were otherwise, Americans could sue the government when their medical conditions worsen due to a lack of government funded care, or if they get assaulted because they aren't allowed to carry a gun in public. I suppose the theory is that we influence these policies by voting, and voting is our recourse if we don't like policies.

    As far as suing individuals, there has to be a cause of action - a law that they have broken or harm that has resulted from their inappropriate conduct. I have no idea what the requirements are that would apply to the researchers in the UK, and suspect it would be a very difficult case to win even with clear evidence of wrong-doing resulting in harm. Unfortunately the doctors listening to the morons have the excuse that the morons are highly respected researchers, experts in the field, blah blah blah.

    It might be easiest to go after the credentials of those originally causing the harm. Doctors are expected to hold to certain standards, and I doubt anyone would jump on board to defend the free speech rights of a researcher that has deliberately made false statements regarding medical treatments. Similarly, uni professors may have trouble staying employed if they have clear problems with their ability to think rationally or discern the difference between good and bad science. Who wants to go to school staffed by idiots? Who wants to hire the students taught by idiots?

    We can't expect politicians to make the correct decision in who they listen to, but the researchers should be accountable for the harm they do, either deliberately or negligently.
  12. Chris

    Chris Senior Member

    Victoria, BC
    Before anyone gets too optimistic about this as a real possibility, remember that drug companies and other large institutions have deeep pockets, and that the Supreme Court is filled with conservative Republican choices, and voted recently to allow corporations to spend as much as they wished on election campaigns. The picture is not good... Chris
  13. WillowJ

    WillowJ คภภเє ɠรค๓թєl

    WA, USA
    let's not get partisan on this, ok? we could start a debate about the reasons, merits, and drawbacks of this but that would be off-topic and wouldn't help our cause any... (besides which, there are plenty of Democrat appointees in the Supreme and other courts as well)

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