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"It was quasi-religious":the great self esteem con ....Guardian article

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Chrisb, Jun 5, 2017.

  1. Chrisb

    Chrisb Senior Member

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    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jun/03/quasi-religious-great-self-esteem-con

    This article about the legacy of John Vasconellos' self esteem movement from 1980's California may (or, equally, may not) be of interest. It struck me as being useful background information about the period when the idea of CBT for ME was developed, and the ideas that were in circulation at the time.

    You may see parallels in the scientific integrity behind the differing approaches. I could not possibly comment.
     
  2. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    psychonanalysis was discredited by CBT promoters. Self-esteem is now being discredited by Self-acceptance promoters.

    One con is being replaced by another.

    The new generation need to built their careers on something they came up with but the market for their product has already been cornered by someone else long before them. Not a big problem if you can produce all the 'evidence' that you need. Expose the fraud with your own research, hype your own fraud. Done.

    It is also Positive Psychology(old generation) vs. Mindfulness(new generation).

    Positive Psychology/CBT:

    Any thought other than a positive one is irrational/unhelpful.

    Mindfulness:

    Just accept things as they are.

    BS meter measurements are equally high in both of course. Both sell very well. Taking the place of institutional religion, the biggest and most successful scam of all time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
  3. ScottTriGuy

    ScottTriGuy Stop the harm. Start the research and treatment.

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    If I had fewer morals, I would go into the god biz.
     
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  4. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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    Notice that there has never been any traction for a respect for self and others movement.

    Back when this shit (self esteem) was being taught to children in schools it occurred to me that it was a petri dish for cultivating narcissists.
     
  5. Orla

    Orla Senior Member

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    Comedian George Carlin on the self-esteem movement (warning some bad language)

     
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    That's a pretty shallow characterization of mindfulness, which is a subtle concept and practice, with thousands of years of history within the Buddhism tradition, arguably reaching its zenith with Zen. (If like me you are a logical, scientific type, then Zen I think is a good, though rather perplexing, approach to understanding mindfulness).

    But I guess it's possible that mindfulness may be taught in a somewhat shallow way these days, as a sort of commercialized "lifestyle accessory" or "business productivity tool". I don't know, I am out of touch, so cannot really judge or comment much about this new incarnation and popularization of mindfulness. This new incarnation is definitely more secular though: it seems to be tailored for the workplace, rather than for personal spiritual growth or formation of character.
     
  7. trishrhymes

    trishrhymes Save PR. Sack the President of the Board.

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    Think I'll just stick with being grumpy:
    [​IMG]

    I remember learning a bit about mindfulness meditation back in my hippy days in the early 1970's as a Buddhist traditional practice. The westernised commercialised version these days is crap by comparison.
     
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  8. Barry53

    Barry53 Senior Member

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    I like that :D
     
  9. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Yeah, it seems that in general, commercialization is the central value these days. It's hard to get away from it. It seems to gobble up other values.
     
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  10. aaron_c

    aaron_c Senior Member

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    I've done some years of Buddhist meditation and I also was exposed to Mindfullness-Based Stress Reduction in school (A semester course...supposedly I can teach it now). MBSR is like the reader's digest version of Buddhist meditation. My guess was that it would work OK if you don't examine it too closely or hold on to it too tightly.
     
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  11. IreneF

    IreneF Senior Member

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    Self-esteem is important. But you can't cultivate it without a deep understanding of its causes, including genetics, early experiences, family background, etc. etc. Handing out ribbons won't do it.
     
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  12. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    Self-esteem. Closely related to the positive thinking movement, or optimism ideology, as I call it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
  13. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

    That George Carlin video rant against the self-esteem movement popped up an ad for increasing self-esteem:

    :rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
  14. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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    People need to have an appropriate image of themselves. Self esteem doesn't give that.
    For the most part few people are willing or able to confront those parts of themselves that are less than their ideal self.

    Self esteem is an escape an easy out and it has the draw back that being taught self esteem it's never extended to anyone else outside the self.

    Self respect allows for a healthy sense of self while holding ourselves accountable for how we treat ourselves and others.

    Self esteem is a fad fed by the media by the gurus of positive thinking. I don't buy it.
     
  15. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    Luther Blissett likes this.
  16. Oberon

    Oberon Senior Member

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