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Is this the second coming of reeves and wessely et al

Discussion in 'Action Alerts and Advocacy' started by flex, Feb 7, 2010.

  1. Mark

    Mark Former CEO

    Sofa, UK
    Absolutely hit the nail on the head flex, this is exactly what is being lined up: patients wherever they can get them, everyone needs CBT. Thinking positive helps everyone! Go team you! The philosophical basis is that the old dualism that kept medicine on one side and the mysterious world of the mind on the other, is outdated: in an age where we understand there is no 'soul', 'mind' or 'spirit', clearly it's meaningless to draw a line between physical and psychological, everything is sort of both, or something - I dunno exactly, it's a bit like the trinity, or not...anyway the point is: they've figured out this ancient old philosophical problem and it means: after 20 years dedicated work on a Third Way, psychosomatic illnesses now "exist at the grey area between the physical and the psychological" (or the treadmill and the couch, perhaps?): next step: "nearly all sick people benefit from our CBT according to 200 new correctly-run studies" followed by "Save your government cash: Think yourself better, says new Psychological Surveillance Chief Rantzen".

    Oh but look at me, getting all negative again. That won't make me any better! What I need to do is calm down, think positive, and things can only get better. Think positive! I will get better (treatment), I will get better (treatment)...
  2. flex


    London area

    An interesting watch. Psychiatry will continue to re market itself everytime it is exposed. It was after the above exposure that the DSM was invented. Diagnostic Statistical Manual. A book of fake science!

    It was not based on any science, so therefore cannot claim to be a diagnostic manual. They just asked people abot their "feelings" on an extensive tick list and then fed the answers into a computer. Hence the DSM was born. This is the book that the Psychiatric profakession want the whole world at the mercy of. Over 350 Menatal illnesses "because we say so" when 40 years ago there were maybe only a handful.

    The more "illnesses" the more billing. A licence to print money!! A licence granted by the government. Evey human emotion and experience an opportunity for billing.
  3. flex


    London area

    Is this what we want future generations exposed to regardless of ME or XMRV. Its dangerous enough for those of us who actually need medical help.

    All these people ever do is "disprove" or poo poo other peoples theories or even science. They never prove their own!!

    So there are no confirmatory tests, no cures, no onus of proof, no laibility - thats a pretty big market. In some countries, including the UK, most of these people are paid by the state, in others they have they have the power of the state, so what does that make them?
  4. justinreilly

    justinreilly Senior Member

    NYC (& RI)
    You might like my REVISED COMMENTS SENT TO DSM5 better-

    "I'm going to have to add to my previous comments, included at the end.

    Re: Criterion B

    One can satisfy criterion B by meeting 2 of the 4 options, thus criterion B is satisfied if the patient has both (1) a high level of health related anxiety and (5) health concerns that play a central role on his life.

    This is patently ridiculous. If a patient has ME/CFIDS, AIDS or MS, the fact that one has a high level of anxiety and that health concerns play a central role in one's life obviously does NOT mean the patient is somatisizing. Perhaps this patient has an adjustment disorder.

    These criteria seem tailored to target those who have serious diseases and are abused by some psychiatrists (causing iatrogenic anxiety) and patient activists opposed to some psychiatrists (for whom health concerns pay a major role in their lives).

    The fact that some members of this committee have been active in the war on ME patients does not seem to be a coincidence.

    Re: Rationale

    In the "rationale" section, you say:
    "Some patients, for instance with irritable bowel syndrome or fibromyalgia would not
    necessarily qualify for a somatic symptom disorder diagnosis."

    The words 'some' and 'necessarily' imply that many people with so-called "MUS" disorders like fibromyalgia are somatisizing. Obviously, this is untrue. This has to go.

    My previous comment:

    This looks very good!! I have ME/CFIDS and was very concerned that "CFS" was going to be named. I was pleasantly surprised to see this language in the rationale: "It clarifies that a diagnosis of CSSD is inappropriate in the presence of only unexplained medical symptoms. Similarly, in conditions such as irritable bowel syndrome, CSSD should not be coded unless the other criterion (criterion B—attributions, etc) is present." Your thoughts here are mine exactly! Please be sure to include this language prominently in the final product.
    I have previously criticised Dr. Sharpe strongly. I am very glad to see such good work here.
    Thank you, Justin Reilly "
  5. justinreilly

    justinreilly Senior Member

    NYC (& RI)
    We already know Dr. Sharpe, one of the somatoform committee members, is committed to persecuting us with, inter alia, his public declaration that we are "the undeserving sick."

    Check out what another committee member, Dr. Barsky, has to say in his book Feeling Better:
    "Often, however, people avoid ... activities ... because they mistakenly believe that the physical discomfort indicates that the activity is harmful.
    For example, many CFS sufferers restrict their activities because they believe that exertion worsens their disease; but studies have shown this is incorrect. In fact, a gradual, sustained program of progressive exercise is the best approach to this condition. Inactivity only worsens the fatigue by allowing muscles to become weaker, decreasing exercise tolerance, and actually increasing feelings of fatigue and exhaustion."

    p. 155

    Let these charlatans know what you think about their DSM revisions:
  6. muffin

    muffin Senior Member

    Muffin HAS stepped back into the discussion - BUT Calmly...

    First: Initially I did feel that my approach, which was deemed unacceptably aggressive, was being attacked. I apologized but then went back and re-read my letter and realized that it did not say anything that was terribly wrong or rude or even horribly aggressive. BUT, I did realize that my own ANGER was getting too much involved in my opinions and discussions and that is not good. Not good for me and my emotions and not good for real, calm and sober discussions that others deserve to hear without the intense deep-seated anger I was bringing to discussions (and outside contacts). So I took a break to get my anger back under control and deal with the BIL with prostate cancer. I am calm now and the level of anger is reduced to more acceptable levels. My approach was not wrong, it was the intense anger associated with that approach that was very wrong and needed to be pointed out to me and corrected. Actually, I was grateful that someone saw my anger and pushed me into taking a break and getting it back to normal. I needed that break, I just didnt know it.

    Thank you Flex for being a supporter, I do appreciate it greatly. My opinions and approaches, like all others, are indeed valid unless I am attacking another member. I have continued to write emails to the UK authorities but did so with a calmer manner. I have no intention of stopping my emailing to the UK authorities since what happens in the UK affects what happens in the US and vice versa. Again, we have to be a UNITED FRONT against "THEM". And I do expect and appreciate our UK friends stepping into US CFIDS issues. We need everyone involved and fighting against CDC, Wessely, White, and the rest of our enemies - and we have so darn many of them out there including the insurance companies, the doctors, medical boards, and the hateful stigma dumped on us decades ago by those same enemies.

    Next, I fervently agree with the initial thread by Flex that we MUST watch Reeves, the CDC, et al now and maybe even more since I do think there is a ploy at work with moving Reeves. He is still at the CDC and still working on mental health issues as he did in his role at CDC/CFS. This makes me very nervous. Had he been retired or moved to another area not associated with what he was doing in his position as head of CDC/CFS with mental health foolishness, I would not be so worried. But, I do NOT trust the CDC and believe that the CDC moved Reeves to placate the CFIDS sick, cover their behinds in the face of XMRV, and will continue to damage us CFIDS sick in other ways - not directly through the CDC/CFS program, but via Reeves' NEW position. Reeves' move was a public relations trick and a means to placate the CFIDS/ME sick nothing more until proven otherwise.

    I do NOT trust the CDC, nor should anyone else UNTIL they prove that their approach to CFIDS has made a 180 degree change. I want to see real change in the way they do CFIDS business and not just moving Reeves out of the CDC/CFS position. Reeves move was just a ploy to placate us and reduce collateral damage IF XMRV rings true. Real change means getting rid of their contractors, ABT Associates and Emory MIND-BODY Program. It means coming up with more funding for real medical research and not the psychobabble stuff they have wasted over $100M on for the last 25 plus years. So, until we see these very real changes, we can NOT trust the CDC/CFS program.

    "Starting Feb. 14, Reeves will be senior advisor for a NEW mental health surveillance program that will explore how various diseases and conditions affect mental health."

    Moving Reeves into the Mental Health Surveillance position is BAD NEWS for us. And I have said this time and again on this forum. And I agree with Flex that we must continue to watch the CDC in everything they do with CFIDS. They may now be in a position to do even MORE damage to us than before - and do so covertly - even more dangerous as there is now no transparency as there was with the CDC/CFS program with Reeves as a visible target. Now Reeves can pull stunts on the CFIDS sick and we will not know it or be able to track it back to him. I find this to be a very dangerous situation. Again, we must continue to watch the CDC and slam them when they pull more stunts on us all.

    REMEMBER: The CDC and other US/UK organizations are reading what we write on websites/blogs and using that information to out maneuver us. Its the old, We know they know we know they know game. Americans will understand this quote from the Sitcom "FRIENDS" when they played the We know they knowgame.

    To the CDC: WE KNOW what you are doing and we are watching you very closely.

    "flex: Is this the second coming of reeves and wessely et al Consider if we are worse now than before: Is there a calculated plan that we are being lured into. Is it plan B and has it been worked on for years. "Accept XMRV then deny it causes the full range of our physical problems." Are we to be controlled and forced into Psychological assessment en mass as a whole population, then to be informed of our "sins". Is this the second coming of the "church and state". Surely we should be free to choose our own religion or belief system.
    Don't forget that the CDC is still a very tactical issue, the science has been out there for years. Just accepting XMRV for whatever role it plays does not stop the psych lobby and their conspirators from saying "you also have a functional somatic disorder". This is exactly the tactic being employed by the APA for the new DSM. Reeves has only moved down the corridor on the same salary. We all have to take a look at the politics of the DSM V and stop thinking this is about good scientists versus nasty scientists
    "Starting Feb. 14, Reeves will be senior advisor for a NEW mental health surveillance program that will explore how various diseases and conditions affect mental health."
    It seems you will get marched out of one door in the CDC with a positive XMRV test straight into the office of MR Reeves to be given your mental health diagnosis then sent for CBT and GET because "your physical illness wouldnt cause such disfunction". Just like they say to people with Lymes disease and MS.
    The science is not going to "settle" this in the CDC so that the corrupt UK and US authorities, insurance companies etc all roll over and give us a big apology. If this was purely a scientific issue it would have been over years ago and we may have all had a cure by now. I have seen this belief an unsettling amount of times now and am concerned that we are playing right into their hands as we sleep walk into another disaster"
  7. muffin

    muffin Senior Member

    Bravo and well done to FLEX and Mark. Very thoughtful and intelligent arguements. It is war and the "Dark Side" is able to talk among themselves while we are forced into the open. But as pointed out already, WE have the Internet and that means that we can reach a HUGE population and keep the public and the sick informed of what Reeves, Wessely, et al are doing and why they are doing it. Public scrutiny - knowledge IS power - this is what helped pry open and take down the closed Soviet Union and what has helped change countries like China and other nations that try to keep their population in the information-dark.

    So, keep talking, complaining, ensuring that all negative information and games played by the CDC and the UK Wessely/White bunch are out there for ALL to see. Being "publicly outed" when you are up to no good sucks - doesn't it, Bill and Simon?!?
  8. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

    This is from the the President of the IACFS/ME: Fred has a great letter below.

    Watch Reeves, yes but this is far bigger than Reeves I would think and the battle will be with the DSM committee not Reeves. We need our professional organizations (IACFS/ME,CAA, WPI) and professionals to provide rigorously documented letters stating why this is such a bad idea. I'm going to start digging up ideas we can use in our letters.

  9. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

    Why ME/CFS is not a somatoform disorder:

    • psychotropic drugs have not proven effective at treating this condition
    • behavioral therapies have had limited effectiveness in limited percentages of patients
    • CFS is a heterogeneous condition; no single drug or therapy has been shown to be effective in returning the broad class of chronic fatigue syndrome patients to health. On the contrary many different therapies have been at least partially effective in different subsets of patients.

    Characterizing the broad disease called chronic fatigue syndrome is fruitless at this point. Recent research suggests the following subsets may be present:

    • a cancer subset
    • a metabolically dysfunctional subset
    • a 'pathogen' subset characterized by immune abnormalities and increased rates opportunistic pathogen activity
    • a mood disorder subset with limited central nervous system abnormalities
    • a subset with significant central nervous system abnormalities without the disorders

    Chronic fatigue syndrome is characterized by the following abnormalities:

    • reduced natural killer cell functioning
    • aberrant HPA axis functioning including low cortisol levels
    • increased pro-inflammatory cytokine activity
    • reduced heart rate variability levels
    • increased activation of herpesviruses
    • increased rates of oxidative stress
    • reduced blood volume

    A Diverse Condition is Not Amenable to Categorization at this point

    Many different definitions of chronic fatigue syndrome have been and still are being proposed. In the past seven years at least three definitions have been proposed by professional bodies (Empirical Definition, Canadian Consensus Definition, Pediatric Definition), two of which markedly differed from the other, and all of which markedly differed from the standard definition (Fukuda Definition). Categorizing a disease whose definition is still blurred is dangerous.

    The CDC's Strategic Five Year Plan - states that the need for consensus in this area. Until chronic fatigue syndrome researchers can figure out what their disease is the DSM should not attempt to categorize it for them.

    Treatment Effects Indicate the Heterogeneous Nature of the Disorder

    Anecdotal reports from many patients indicate how heterogeneous this disorder as. Patients have received significant help from a range of antivirals (Vistide, Valcyte, Valtrex, Interferon's, etc), hormones ( cortisol, pregnanalone, etc.), immune modulators (Isoprinosine), nutraceuticals (COQ10, probiotics, D-Ribose, fatty acids, anti-oxidants, etc.), beta blockers, second nervous system stimulants, blood volume enhancers (florinef), central nervous system stimulants and central nervous system depressants, etc. CFS is often referred to as a 'wastebasket diagnosis' and as such contains many people with many different problems.

    A Chilling Effect on an Already Frozen Entity

    Studies suggest 1 million people in the United States have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. They exhibit high rates of disability and cause the country high rates of economic losses (@20 billion dollars/year). Despite its prevalence and impact CFS remains the the poorest funded of the 215 'diseases or conditions' at the NIH. CFS has always been stigmatized by its name and its multisystemic nature has made it less than amenable for the research community to study. Re-Characterizing CFS as a somatic condition will chill research efforts further while not providing suitable treatment options.

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