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Is this potassium deficiency? Strong arm pain

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Al Klein, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. periodically over past 6 weeks or so I have been getting a pain in my right arm - feels like a muscular pain. Normally it comes and goes, sometimes it wakes me up at night. This past couple of days it hasnt been going, and I am in almost constant pain. I am sipping my 3rd glass of diluted Potassium Gluconate (1tsp = 500mg PG, Now foods) today plus chelated magnesium 200mg 3 times a day (drs Best )

    What has changed over past 6 weeks? i was getting 8 weekly hydroxy jabs plus taking Jarrows 500. About 8 weeks ago I did 3 weeks alternating days hydroxo and now do weekly. About 3 weeks ago I switched from Jarrows 5000 to Enzymatic Therapy 1000. a week ago I added quarter Dibencozide twice a week.

    Too much B12? Is the answer to back off the B12 or increase even more the potassium

    (as an aside I have researched angina as a possibility, but I have a good Lipid reading from a year ago, so am hoping its not this!!!)

    I have Pernicious Anemia (from lack of intrinsic factor because of parietal antibodies) and Hashimotos.

    Fatigue is much improved since starting the B12

    Any suggestions how to cope with this pain?

    Thanks
  2. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Al,

    Please describe the pain(s) with much greater detail. On the ACTIVE b12 basics thread is a reasonably complete list of symptoms that includes at least 10 different kinds of muscle pains that point at all sorts of different things. The same symptoms are in a broken up by set of nutrients on several posts on the LEVELS o Methylation post in the last half a dozen pages more or less.

    Also look at this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermatome_(anatomy), at the Dermatome maps sensory nerves and see if the pain follows one dermatome or two adjacent ones or has no relation.

    It isn't "too much" b12. It can be nerves waking up from damage. It can be missing things. It can be inflammation. It can be all sorts of things and that is why the questions.
  3. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    It sounds similar to what I get. The hydroxoB12 is what stops it for me. Maybe cutting back on that is what's letting the pain creep back in for you.

    HydroxoB12 is a pretty good free-radical scavenger or some such, so maybe that's why it helps?
  4. The pain is in the "superior lateral cutaneous" anterior it is a dull constant pain / ache I can live with it but am aware that its been there all day.

    Fredd do you mean the "Active B12 Protocol Basics" thread the thread is only 6 pages long and I dont seem to be seeing what you are referring to in bold above.
  5. Thanks Valentijn - perhaps I should increase the frequency of hydroxo shots. I do not have MTHFR so in theory can cope with more hydroxo, less methyl

    I am homo for : COMTV158M & H62H MAO-A MTRR A66G and CBS C699
    Valentijn likes this.
  6. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    The Active B12 Basics has a consolidated list of symptoms at post 24. A much newer thread, Stages of methylation http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/the-stages-of-methylation-and-healing.21725/page-15 (at 20 posts per page, start at post 289, 294, 321, 322, 323 has the symptoms derived up by response to nutrients and all of the symptoms having no response are not on those lists. On those lists find the type of pains that best describe your pain qualitatively or if that doesn't happen, find the words to best describe the pains.

    The biggest problem with HyCbl is that it is poorly effective against a few of the symptoms at best and not at all for most of them for most people. There is no page of HyCbl deficiency symptoms because it is a breakdown product and a byproduct of active b12s and can be minimally recycled by the body for times of active b12 starvation. Some layers will get worse while taking it. When a person finally starts active b12 the deficiency symptoms are often much worse and so are startup responses. And for some people HyCbl causes acne like lesions on the face and scalp that can spread all over the body and worsen until treated with MeCbl.
  7. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    The COMT and MAOA might be causing you problems in tolerating methylB12.
  8. Freddd
    The pain is like my arm is being squeezed like the pain I sometimes feel with a blood pressure cuff on but it doesnt go away, I cant seem to find any better words a dull constant ache
  9. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    Al Klein You should get checked out. While angina is usually in the left arm, occasionally it will be the right.
  10. I think that the arm pain is because of hypertension. The hypertension is because I need to reduce my NDT for the second time since starting B12. I have not taken any medicine or supplements today (it's now 5:20pm UK time) , apart from BP tablets and my arm pain has gone and BP coming down.
    Doctor will be consulted next week.
    Many thanks to all who tried to help
  11. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Al,

    Are you taking CoQ10 while in the early stages of healing with methylation supplements? That can cause high blood pressure and terrible headaches, at least for me and some others. If you are taking diuretics, which ones you rake is important as some of them can dump potassium and magnesium out the urine and retaining sodium screwing up things quite totally.
  12. Thanks Fredd's - no CoQ10 yet! My diuretic is a thiazide and I have had a low potassium reding recently so have been trying to ensure diet contains potassium, plus supplementing potassium and magnesium.

    I do not really know what else I can do to reduce BP (although weight loss and exercise would be a start, when I can find the energy!)
  13. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Al,

    Yes indeed. a thiazide diuretic can dump potassium right out of your body. You might need 1000 or 2000mg a day just to satisfy the diuretic, or not. The problem in this is that the serum level can fluctuate tremendously during night and day, sometimes dipping into symptoms territory as high as 4.3
  14. It has only been a problem since taking the B12 etc! I seem to NEED strong BP meds at the moment, do you have another suggestion?
    Thanks
  15. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Al,

    Here is the deal. The diuretic also unbalances electrolytes in general and makes a decent balance very difficult. A set of mineral tests especially sodium, calcium, potassium and magnesium might give some hints. However, my solution was to take enough potassium as supplement to not have symptoms.

    I used to gain 3 pounds a day without he diuretic. I am off it now. I had a couple of episodes of loosing 45 pounds of water in a couple of months. Last year I got too dehydrated, thick saliva, teeth rotting out. I tapered the diuretic and am fine now. The edema problem is GONE, after almost 30 years.

    Look at #4 and #5 below. These are where I lost the 85 pounds water, 60 pounds of fat and put on 50 pounds of muscle and finished healing the body. This is from post 2 on http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/the-stages-of-methylation-and-healing.21725/

    1. First level methylation blockage - We have epithelial cell formation at this first to shut down and first to startup level of the blocked methylation. It can come and go in days. MeCbl & L-methylfolate can cause methylation startup in hours generally. These are the first things to appear when paradoxical folate deficiency occurs or for some when HyCbl is consumed and epithelial methylation is shut down (2-3 days), acne type lesions first on scalp and face and spreading to body, angular cheilitis (sores at corner of mouth), IBS (4-5 days) and other symptoms. MeCbl 100mcg absorbed & L-methylfolate 200+mcg will start correcting, and titrate to sufficiency, 100mcg diffusion level, lesser insufficiency of other factors

    2. Second level of methylation blockage – Endothelial inflammation and failure, lack of deep tissue healing, deep tissue inflammation. MeCbl & AdoCbl 100mcg absorbed & L-methylfolate 800+mcg will start correcting and titrate to sufficiency, 100mcg diffusion level, greater insufficiency of other factors

    3. Third level methylation blockage, METHYL TRAP. This often has sudden hard onset. It occurs for lack of MeCbl in cells so L-methylfolate is expelled from cells. Rich pointed this out when the symptoms and circumstances were described. It starts suddenly, widespread inflammation and pain, severe muscle aches and pain, MCS, asthma, allergies, sudden severe flu like illness with little or no fever. May or may not be accompanied by severe abnormal fatigue. MeCbl & (AdoCbl & LCF - fatigue) 100mcg absorbed & L-methylfolate 800+mcg will start correcting and titrate to sufficiency, 100mcg diffusion level, greater insufficiency of all factors.

    4. Severe abnormal fatigue. Muscles don’t repair well. Severe muscle pains of many types. No exercise tolerance. Exercise doesn’t increase muscle or mitochondria increase. Edema, congestive heart failure. MeCbl & AdoCbl 1000mcg absorbed & L-Carnitine Fumarate & L-methylfolate 3200+mcg will start correcting and titrate to sufficiency, 1000mcg diffusion level, greater insufficiency of all factors before treatment.

    5. Severe abnormal fatigue. Muscles don’t repair well. Severe muscle pains of many types. No exercise tolerance. Exercise doesn’t increase muscle or mitochondria increase. Muscles atrophy. Everything is breaking down. Edema and congestive heart failure. Only watery fat, if anything, increases. Large weight gains on minimal food. MeCbl & AdoCbl 1000mcg absorbed & L-Carnitine Fumarate & L-methylfolate 3200+mcg (titrated to sufficiency) will start correcting, 1,000mcg daily diffusion level, greater insufficiency of all factors before treatment.

    6. CNS functioning and healing may require much larger doses of AdoCbl and MeCbl to penetrate the CSF/CNS by diffusion. MeCbl & AdoCbl 10000mcg absorbed 3 times daily & L-Carnitine Fumarate & L-methylfolate 3200+mcg (titrated to sufficiency) will start correcting, 30,000mcg daily diffusion level needed.
  16. Thank you Fredd's I am sorry it takes me a long time for anything to sink in! I have been number 3 this week - flu like symptoms coming and going, severe fatigue coming and going, muscle pain (albeit only in the right arm)
    I have been taking jarrows 5000 since April until few weeks ago when switched to enzymatic therapy 1000 - felt a lot better until a week ago. Have started to add a little adenosyl, but not on a daily basis yet. L-CF should arrive tomorrow
    Reading the above I need to start ramping up - all 4 at same time or one by one?
  17. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    The way I like to look at it is first, add the missing items one at a time, first AdoCbl daily, a fraction of a capsule, then carnitine for instance. The LCF is taken on an empty stomach 30 minutes before food. Assuming you are not really anxious, something like a quarter capsule is plenty to start with. Then watch out for low potassium symptoms all along. That is a truly dangerous thing to miss. Get the potassium balanced. Then pay attention to the other symptoms that have intensified, usually folate insufficiency and balance those. The MeCbl should be increased only as the neurological brighten starts falling. Use that as a flag that you are having healing. After a while a person will see what is healing and what isn't and then comes the figuring out what and why. I've kept this up for 10 years always wondering what was next to find. and there has always been a "next" improvement. These titrations are looking for the "sweet spot". Often there will be an increase in effectiveness until there either isn't or an actual reversal of effectiveness when going past optimum. Nobody else can do this for you. It's a process, like tuning in an old fashioned TV or radio. Good luck.
  18. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

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    How do you tell whether the symptoms are an indication that you need more or that you've gone beyond optimum?
  19. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hoi Sea,

    For instance, B1, B2 and B3 in some way increase need for potassium and folate, at the extremes, uncontrollably and at the same time decrease actual healing. At times I have kept detail of everything every day to solve what is going on.
  20. Hey all just an update
    Saw doctor, gave me anti-inflammatories for arm pain which are working, although it comes back when they atrt to wear off! dont know what that all means.

    Been taking 1/4 dibencozide for a week now.
    Been taking about 1/3 l-carnitine fumarate for 4 days, early indications are promising.

    Thanks for all the help :) :) :)

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