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is there any medical basis to Freddd's protocol?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Aerose91, Oct 16, 2014.

  1. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    I know that's a loaded question considering where our illness stands in the medical community but where is the merit for this being beneficial to everyone?

    I'm under the understanding that Freddd doesn't take SNP's into consideration, isn't that the most important part? Because of my SNP's I'm told to take hydroxyl b12 instead of methyl but I decided to try methyl instead based on Freddd's protocol and did not respond well at all. I'm not talking "start up reactions", I'm talking uncontrollable levels of adrenaline with even the slightest amount of mb12, presumably because of my CBS and COMT mutations. With .25 mg I didn't sleep for 2 days and after a couple weeks of this my health has declined considerably due to the sleep loss and an out of control OCD, all due to the adrenaline.

    Dr Cheney, Rich Vank and Amy Yasko all say that hydroxyl b12 is the best source for some people but Freddd discredits this. Is there merit to that?
     
  2. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    @Aerose91 I can't answer anything re: the science aspect of your question but wanted to let you know that so far, I also have not been able to tolerate methyl b-12. You said that b/c of your SNP's you were told to take hydroxy b12 instead. I have done 23andMe but I don't understand from reading the info how someone knows if they need a certain kind of b12. Can you explain this further? If I ever attempt b12 again, I was going to try the hydroxy form. Thanks!
     
  3. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Amy Yasko claims that for many, other things need to be put in place before even hydrox in particular lithium so l am building up with her All in One multi with its small amounts of b12 as l get intolerable inflammation and low mood with either b12's at low dose and no 'brightening' that others speak about so l would say that you might find more advice on this on her site. Freddd speaks from his own experience and won't get the 23and me test done so that we can work it out.
     
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  4. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    Ginger

    She wrote an article called the Simplified roadmap to health.. or something like that. I got the link from someone here but in it was a chart of what types of Vit B to take. I have attached the chart. That's what I'm using.
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    Brenda-

    Thanks for that. So Freddd's protocol was just the protocol that worked for him? And he touts it like it's gospel and all of these doctors and research is wrong? He won't get 23and me either? I'm sorry but I'm having a hard time seeing how there's any merit at all to Freddd and his protocol. He's heavily pushing things that can be very dangerous to some of us.
     
  6. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

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    There is no merit in anything for everyone. We are such a mixed bunch I don't think there will ever be a single treatment that works for all.

    I don't think snps are the most important. They can be helpful but there is a lot of misinformation being spread about them. People are making a lot of assumptions that particular snps are the cause of various reactions. Those assumptions are not science. It can take a lot of trial and error to find a supplement regime that an individual can tolerate and is helpful. Sometimes it can be because of certain snps and sometimes we will never know the reason. Our bodies are far more complex than a simple machine.

    All of them have theories rather than hard facts.

    Rich suggests that using Hydroxyl gives the body the foundational B12 and allows it to determine the rate of conversion to Methyl and Adenosyl as the body requires, and avoids overdriving the methylation cycle.

    Yasko believes that certain snps make you less tolerant of methyl groups and that Methyl B12 can be a problem for some.

    Freddd on the other hand is of the opinion that many (or most) don't convert Hydroxyl well and should take Methyl and Adenosyl instead.

    I have heard of many that find Hydroxl B12 helpful (even when their snps suggest they could tolerate Methyl B12)
    I have no trouble with Methyl B12 (even though my snps suggest I should)

    I really don't think the science has yet been done for us to be dogmatic either way.

    I say give Hydroxl a try, you'll soon know whether it's helpful, doing nothing or making things worse.
     
  7. boo85

    boo85 Senior Member

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    @Aerose91 As far as I know Freddd was very very sick due to low B12. The last time I read his whole story was over a year ago so I don't remember the exact details, but it took him constant high doses of B12 for a long time to gradually come back to "normal", better than normal. So that's his experience, but I don't think it's a one size fits all approach and the amount he suggests that people start on could be outright dangerous.

    Personally, I'm more of a fan of the "go low and slow" approach.

    Hydroxy B12 seems to agree with me better than any other form, but I'm still figuring that out...
     
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  8. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

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    Freddd is a systems analyst and approaches problems from that angle. He has been working on and sharing his protocol long before 23andme existed so I don't think he sees the benefit of it. He would rather work with charts of symptoms and reactions. I don't think his protocol is harmful if you follow the advice to start low and go slow. Harm can be done if reactions are ignored or seen as detox responses.

    You are misled if you think that doctors and researchers have proven anything regarding the snps that Yasko talks about. Her "research" about what helps is anecdotal the same way that Freddd's is. She just makes it sound like it's scientific. They have both been helpful for many people and both protocols have also been unhelpful, even harmful, for some.
     
  9. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Freddd's protocol has helped some. For one person here it proved dangerous (Dreambirdie) as she found from testing that she was detoxing heavy metals which is indeed dangerous without suitable binding. I find Yasko's advice to suit me more because she deals with autistic kids and I have aspergers and the common snp's. Many kids have been helped by her so don't let others put you off. None of them are 100% correct as its in its infancy so you just have to go low and slow to find out how your own body reacts.
     
  10. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    @Aerose91 , have you ever thought about doing a methylation panel?
     
  11. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    I didn't know that all of the info regarding certain reactions because of SNP's was just conjecture and has no scientific basis. The only thing I'd have to disagree with, though is that Freddd promotes start low and go slow. He himself obviously needed high levels of mb12 but I was taking 1/40th of his minimum dosage and it was completely intolerable.
     
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  12. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    Is that like the ion report where they test nutrients related to the methylation cycle?
     
  13. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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  14. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Actually just from my experience systems analyst only deal with solid facts and data. Effective programs can't be written otherwise. I don't know Freddd's background.

    The facts (medical basis for this protocal via labs) aren't available in biochemistry because there are too many unmeasurable factors and chemical interactions based on nutrients, enzymes, hormones, health status of individual (virus, bacteria, physical injury, ?) Etc. at a specific time.

    Fwiw tho I tolerated cyno, mb13 and adb12 for a few months. Then they started making me feel toxic. Who knows why that changed ??? And my DQ2 gene didn't stop me from eating gluten for 50 years.

    I still get a short term, hours, energy boost from cyno and methyl b12 as long as I don't have pem. Nothing helps if I have pem.

    Watching richv, rip, and Freddd arguing was eye opening.

    Tc .. x
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2014
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  15. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Amen to that! :)

    There's even a more profound issue here, probably. It's about the idea that one approach, therapeutic protocol, method can fix everyone.

    This is the dominant idea in western mainstream medicine and it work wonders for acute issues, such as pneumonia, heart attack or food poisoning. But when it comes to chronic and degenerative issues it fails miserably, even with all the modern technology and the "advanced" medical knowledge we think we have.

    Only recently we have started hearing a handful of mainstream doctors talking about "individualized medicine" and how it's important to go back to listening to the patient and digging into his medical history and symptoms, instead of the usual "pill per ill" approach.

    What Yasko and Freddd have done has been certainly useful for some patients and will continue to be for those who fall in the right categories (whatever those might be). I think it's erroneous to think that their protocol should work for everybody and it can be counterproductive to "sell" those approaches as such.

    Truth is we share many symptoms but we come from very different paths.
     
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  16. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    No methylation idea or concept is hard medical fact, no matter how intricate or well sounding they are its all theories. I should mention also though, these things although still theoretical in nature still have produced amazing results for many. I myself have benefited greatly from Fred's protocol.
     
  17. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Freddd was very reluctant to start to say low and slow. His starting dose nearly knocked out a number of people and he just ignored them and said to continue. Eventually he had to concede because so many were having problems but he probably still thinks they are wuzzes.

    He will likely now come on and shout at me but that is nothing new :)
     
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  18. shah78

    shah78 Senior Member

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    @Aerose Kruse pretty much agrees with Freddd.( Think about that combo of egos :)) SNPs are trivia, maybe at the level of Fantasy football. Fun, interesting, but ......
     
  19. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    I've read some stuff from Kruse where he references Amy Yasko's work. I thought he was a supporter of that
     
  20. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    What im saying thought is that other doctors such as mine, Yasko, Cheney etc.. view everyone as needing a different approach to methylation based on their SNP's (which I guess is erroneous though) However, Freddd clumps every person together saying that no matter who you are you need mb12 and hb12 is worthless. Why is someone who believes that approach, when we of all people know how acutely different everyone is, gaining any credibility or traction?

    I hate to make the reference, but a broken watch is also right twice a day, haha.
     

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