Is taking BH4 a problem for COMT++ ?

[Kathevans]

@Wickie Sorry, he's gone from Phoenix Rising. A loss to many of us.

I've tried the Source Naturals for FMN, and didn't find it too objectionable...

 

[Wickie]

@Wickie Sorry, he's gone from Phoenix Rising. A loss to many of us.

I've tried the Source Naturals for FMN, and didn't find it too objectionable...

Perhaps there are others who can help to answer my questions?

Do you have any improvement from FMN?

I saw that you are +/+ for COMT and MAO-A, too. What's about MAO-B?

Do you have problems with too much adreanlin too?

 

[ahmo]

@Wickie I had excellent results w/ FMN, wrote about it, see link in my signature. Also MAO-A ++, and yes, I have this issue w/ too much adrenaline. Probably better now, but definite tendency.

I was tempted to start BH4, but the price put me off. As time has passed, I don't believe it's a problem any more. It's at the center of the reactions that Martin Pall cites in his Nitric Oxide theory. He basically recommends antioxidant use to overcome the pernicious vicious cycles. I've had good luck w/ this strategy. An article and vid from Pall in my sig. Last 20" of vid has slides w/ his recommended supps + sauna.

 

[Wickie]

@ahmo
Your positive experiences with FMN and your recommandation brought me to this thread.

But there is a major difference between our genetics. I am +/+ for COMT and you are +/-.
I am concerned that activating MAO-B, which is -/-, ends up in less dopamine and more adreanlin and noradrenalin.

I tried Pall's protocol years ago with sauna and I crashed for a very long time. I guess there was a good desorption of toxins out of the cells, but my body was not able to get them out. It was awful and I don't want to have that again!

 

[ahmo]

@Wickie Unfortunate sauna experience. I'm not using them myself. I wonder if something like coffee enemas might have helped you in that situation?

Here's a response someone sent me, that might give you some further understanding. Unfortunately, my expertise is in my experiences, not in interpreting snps and pathways.

Some of us actually need our BH4 production to be slow. This decreases the amount of catecholamines we have to metabolize with our MAO and COMT genes. If we sped up BH4 we would have more neurological issues like anxiety and mood disturbances. I have found that people with slow MAOA MAOB and COMT Genes also have slow BH4 production from slow GCH1 or PTS genes. This is how smart our bodies are.

People get in trouble by looking at only single genes and not looking at the complete pathways. The question should not be how do I speed up or slow down a gene, but if I should speed it up or slow down at all.

Zinc will speed up the GCH1 enzyme and magnesium will inhibit it. I take my zinc in the morning and magnesium at night for this reason.

 

[Wickie]

@Wickie Unfortunate sauna experience. I'm not using them myself. I wonder if something like coffee enemas might have helped you in that situation?

Here's a response someone sent me, that might give you some further understanding. Unfortunately, my expertise is in my experiences, not in interpreting snps and pathways.

Your expertise is very valuable for me!

I agree, that it might be good to have a low BH4 production, when there is MAO-A +/+. But if you are MAO-B -/- at the same time, you probably have low dopamine and high adrenaline and noradrenalin, which brings up more problems.
I tried L-Dopa some years ago and ended up with too much adrenaline and noradrenalin and it was horrible.

I am asking myself, if there is any chance to get that solved with my genetic combination?

Whenever I have any kind of stress, I make the experience of too much adreanalin for many hours, which ends up in energy-free conditions = crash.
And the tolerance limit for stress is going down continously. Sometimes I get in these stress situations only by opening the door for the parcel service!

Enemas are very exhausting and I don't feel, that I am able to do that.

 

[ahmo]

@Wickie I used adrenal glandulars for a couple years. It was very helpful for stamina, reducing crashes. It was only after I'd had a major detox response that I no longer needed them. Also used hypothalamus glandular, and pituitary. So I had the whole HPA covered. It really reduced my sensitivity at a time my nervous system was intolerable.

 

[Wickie]

@Wickie I used adrenal glandulars for a couple years. It was very helpful for stamina, reducing crashes. It was only after I'd had a major detox response that I no longer needed them. Also used hypothalamus glandular, and pituitary. So I had the whole HPA covered. It really reduced my sensitivity at a time my nervous system was intolerable.

What products did you take?
How about the dosage, was it prescribed by a doctor?

 

[ahmo]

What products did you take?
How about the dosage, was it prescribed by a doctor?

No Dr.I'd been following Teitelebaum's advice, read the formula on one of his products, and saw it contained adrenal glandular. So I started looking. Dosage: I use self-testing for dosages. Adrenals & hypothalamus AM/PM; pituitary 1 @ bedtime. I used Nutricology hypothalamus (also thymus for a time), Enzymatic Therapy adrenal, because it sounded more complete than some choices, and Raw pituitary.

 

[ebethc]

@Wickie I had excellent results w/ FMN,

Hi @ahmo
FMN makes me tired... do you know if this subsides over time? any thoughts? thanks.

 

[ahmo]

Hi @ahmo
FMN makes me tired... do you know if this subsides over time? any thoughts? thanks.

I didn't experience tiredness. Maybe find or start another FMN thread.

 

[Wickie]

No Dr.I'd been following Teitelebaum's advice, read the formula on one of his products, and saw it contained adrenal glandular. So I started looking. Dosage: I use self-testing for dosages. Adrenals & hypothalamus AM/PM; pituitary 1 @ bedtime. I used Nutricology hypothalamus (also thymus for a time), Enzymatic Therapy adrenal, because it sounded more complete than some choices, and Raw pituitary.

I also tried Teitelbaum's protocol many years ago including "Adrenal Stress End". But my stomach didn't tolerante it, so I stopped it.

Regarding your self-testing, how do you test the dosages? Do you have to have different dosages in hand or do you just say them?

I started self-testing and unfortuantely I have unclear results from time to time, so I am not sure, if this really works for me.

 

[ahmo]

@Wickie I started this self-testing method when I fell sick; I'd just learned it. So , particularly during these last 3 years on the correct path, I've had plenty of time to build rapport and trust. Now, I'll ask whether my body wants xyz supp. And I then tend to ask dosage. My dosages rarely change these days, but I generally ask. Sometimes I'll stick my finger into a bottle, but often, on daily things, I'm just asking. I also ask about foods and exercise.

Here are a couple resources. The vid is only 3 minutes long, the simplest explantion I've seen.

Self-testing http://youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ex59wHLk3Q0

Good written description of simple self-testing: http://www.goodhealthinfo.net/herbalists/muscle_testing.htm

 

[mgk]

Another huge source of amines could be your tap water. It took me years to figure this out because my skin would change from bad to great when I visited different cities. Turns our some cites treat their water with amines: Chloramines. It is a combination of chlorine and ammonia. I have had four other people with MAO snps and are sensitive to chloramines.

Very interesting thread. I started experimenting with adding Vitamin C to my water eliminate chloramines about a month ago. It's only after I stopped adding it (because I ran out) that I realized it may have been responsible for the beneficial effects I saw, namely:

• Fasting blood glucose dropped about 15 points. It used to hover around 100-115, and there was a lot of variation in that range. After, it was hovering around 90-100. So the absolute number was lower and the deviation was lower as well.
• Improved IBS-C. Wasn't completely gone but wasn't as bad as it usually is either. I manage it by taking large doses of magnesium.
• More energy.
• Reduced brain fog.

My new order of C is set to arrive tomorrow so we'll see if I was just imagining things. It'll be depressingly funny if it turns out that something as obvious as water is a big part of why I'm so sick.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I started experimenting with adding Vitamin C to my water

Ascorbic acid or mineral ascorbate?

 

[mgk]

Ascorbic acid or mineral ascorbate?

Ascorbic acid, though I read that sodium ascorbate works just as well. I put very little -- not sure of the exact amount, but I don't think it's more than 100mg per 1 gallon (~3.8L). Vitamin C breaks the chloramines into chlorine and ammonia which escape when aerated, so I just leave it overnight. I got the idea from @Hip in this thread:

IBS Improved After Removing Chloramine (Not the Same as Chlorine) From My Drinking Water

 

[Hip]

@mgk
Great to see that you may have experienced health improvements from neutralizing the chloramines in your drinking water.

If it does pan out that these improvements are real, please consider posting your account on the chloramines thread, because I think eliminating chloramines could help a lot of ME/CFS and IBS patients on this forum.

 

[mgk]

@mgk
Great to see that you may have experienced health improvements from neutralizing the chloramines in your drinking water.

If it does pan out that these improvements are real, please consider posting your account on the chloramines thread, because I think eliminating chloramines could help a lot of ME/CFS and IBS patients on this forum.

I will, definitely. Thanks for sharing your knowledge by the way, it's much appreciated!

 

[ahmo]

My understanding is that filters made to attach to showers contain C.

 

[mgk]

I will, definitely. Thanks for sharing your knowledge by the way, it's much appreciated!

Unfortunately it's looking like I was wrong: chloramine wasn't the problem. I've been adding Vitamin C for the past 2 weeks or so, but the improvements I mentioned haven't returned. I keep poring over my journal, trying to figure out what I was doing differently back then, but it's all the same!

Back to the drawing board... sorry for the noise everybody.