A New Decade of ME Research: The 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference 2016
Mark Berry presents the first in a series of articles on the 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference in London ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Is Roundup the Cause of 'Gluten Intolerance'?

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Strawberry, Apr 10, 2015.

  1. Strawberry

    Strawberry Senior Member

    Messages:
    799
    Likes:
    1,492
    Seattle, WA USA
    I don't often go to Mother Earth News, but I found this study linked there in an article they published.

    http://www.motherearthnews.com/real-food/~/media/2C6428C5A5254BAFB484C6E43E4ADCF9.ashx



    (sorry about the blue, I can't figure out how to get it black!)
     
    SilverbladeTE and merylg like this.
  2. Kyla

    Kyla ᴀɴɴɪᴇ ɢꜱᴀᴍᴩᴇʟ

    Messages:
    721
    Likes:
    4,222
    Canada
  3. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,136
    Likes:
    3,404
    Vancouver, British Columbia
    Another theory out there is that it is the fast rising yeasts that bakers use today that is causing gluten intolerance. With a slower rising natural yeast more of the gluten is burned off in the rising process.
     
  4. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,340
    Likes:
    6,526
    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    I found this vid re glyphosate riveting . It links the rise of our current inflammatory diseases to the introduction of RoundUp in the 70's

    Seeds of Truth: Dr. Stephanie Seneff on GMO and Round-up herbicide



    http://www.examiner.com/gmo-in-seattle/nancy-swanson
     
  5. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,908
    Likes:
    3,560
    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    Problem is...Monsanto has the money to buy off, corrupt, put under cover PIs in to screw research up...you name it, they can do it.
    If you think I'm taking silly about using under cover agents...James Randi's asinine stunt on a parapsychology research group proved you damn well CAN do it. ha!
    Scientifically proven you can manipulate scientific research, ugh. *face palm*
    and worse, showed the world, which has many rich, powerful evil assholes in it, that you can screw up science pretty easily if you're rich and amoral enough. :/

    After what they did with Agent Orange, and the tobacco companies with their product research, there's no damn way you can ever be sure where power comes to play, or the nuclear industry, that any research is 100% valid :(
    and it's why I want money and power OUT of the equation.
    Science relies on the 100% certainty on it's facts, because everything relies on data being 100% accurate
    when power and money get involved...yer buggered, there cannot be any certainty.
    All becomes a house built on foundations of sand.

    Research maybe valid...but it might have been manipulated, trying to get the actual truth is incredibly hard especially because "negative" studies are not "sexy" so nowadays are rarely done even thought hey are absolutely vital to the Scientific process.
    Hence, QED, proof by repeatable demonstration/study by neutral bodies, which is essential, is harder to come by.
    Sigh.

    As I've mentioned before, I first heard about the fact that organophosphates are incredibly powerful immune modulators and carcinogens because of a Russian chemical weapon that ended up killing the researchers making it just after fall of the Soviet Union. One of the "Novichok" agents.
    now folk can read about some of it on Wikipedia.
     
    jimells and sarah darwins like this.
  6. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

    Messages:
    2,467
    Likes:
    10,480
    Cornwall, UK
    I’m not disagreeing, but a couple of points:

    - gmoanswers.com is run by the Council for Biotechnology Information, of which all the big 6 biotech corporations (including Monsanto, makers of Roundup!) are members

    - Steve Savage, who wrote the article linked on Science20, has worked for DuPont and Mycogen (which is owned by Dow, another of the big 6)

    Some of the ‘debunking’ seems to focus very heavily on Celiac disease. 95% of people with celiac have an inheritable form, which clearly isn’t anything to do with Roundup or GMOs. Non-celiac gluten sensitivity is another matter. More of the ‘debunking’ routinely cites the estimate of about 0.6% of people in the USA having this condition, and infers from this that Roundup/GMOs are having no effect. But there is real disagreement about how to test for gluten intolerance/sensitivity, and even about what those terms mean.

    Whenever you start looking into this whole area you find so much of the ‘information’ out there is coming from partial sources. It’s an absolute minefield. I’ve been trying to get a handle on it for a long time and the only conclusion I’ve come to is that no one has the faintest idea what effects, if any, these developments in agriculture are having or will have on human health and biology. We’re all, whether we like it or not, taking part in a medical trial (no control group — everyone’s in the experimental group for this one). Results to be published in a few generations from now :nervous:
     
  7. Kyla

    Kyla ᴀɴɴɪᴇ ɢꜱᴀᴍᴩᴇʟ

    Messages:
    721
    Likes:
    4,222
    Canada
    I certainly have no love of Monsanto.
    Frankly the fact that those two links have the association they do is honestly just some lazy googling on my part ;)
    I would say though, that I'm not sure it matters much in this case, as their arguments are basically showing methodological and logic flaws in the original "study", and I think those flaws are quite valid.

    As to why they all reference Celiac as opposed to NCGI, I would suggest that is likely because we understand considerably more about Celiac and its mechanism of action on the body. Whereas all we really now about NCGI at this point is that some people experience it, but not what causes it or how. This makes it rather hard to prove or disprove any apparent cause.

    As to Celiac being inheritable, it is, to an extent, you have to have the gene(s), but millions of people have one or the other and never develop Celiac. (I believe the statistic is around 40% of the population carries one of the two genes? I would have to look that up again). I have Celiac (confirmed by genes, antibodies, and endoscopy) and literally no other member of my family does (and a good number of them have been tested). It is known that gene(s) + gluten exposure are necessary for developing Celiac, but not sufficient, ie - there is some other factor that turns that gene "on". what that factor is is still very much open to debate.
     
  8. Kyla

    Kyla ᴀɴɴɪᴇ ɢꜱᴀᴍᴩᴇʟ

    Messages:
    721
    Likes:
    4,222
    Canada
    ...just looked it up, it is 30% of the population:

    "these variants are also found in 30 percent of the general population, and only 3 percent of individuals with the gene variants develop celiac disease"

    http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/celiac-disease
     
  9. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,345
    Likes:
    14,625
    If the study is trying to demonstrate that glyphosate is linked to celiac disease and gluten intolerance, why on Earth would they choose fish as their animal model?!

    You would want to select an animal more closely related to humans, such as a murine or rat model, which are normally used to study celiac.

    Anyone know why they chose fish?
     
  10. Strawberry

    Strawberry Senior Member

    Messages:
    799
    Likes:
    1,492
    Seattle, WA USA
    I wondered about that, too. How do you tell if a fish has a belly ache and diarrhea?:confused:
     
    sarah darwins likes this.
  11. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,505
    Likes:
    2,710
    Gluten is no problem for me and I still use Roundup to get rid of the weed.
     
  12. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

    Messages:
    2,467
    Likes:
    10,480
    Cornwall, UK
    I would say again, I'm not taking a position on this. I just wanted to point out the importance of knowing the sources of information. The fish study does indeed sound bizarre.

    For a really thoughtful and thought-provoking look at glyphosate and GMOs from a 'poacher turned gamekeeper', this is a video of a lecture by Theirry Vrain, formerly Head of Biotechnology at one of Agriculture Canada's research stations. It's about 40 minutes long, but worth the time (and he's very good to listen to). He's not talking just about gluten intolerance or celiac (though they come up), but it certainly makes you wonder what glyphosate and "Roundup-ready" crops might be doing to the human body:

     
    Richard7 likes this.
  13. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,505
    Likes:
    2,710
    It is not allowed to use roundup near water.
     
    jimells likes this.
  14. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,908
    Likes:
    3,560
    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    eh...the gulf between what folk SAY and say what folk should do or do not, and what they ACTUALLY do and occurs, is vast :/
     
  15. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,997
    Likes:
    6,099
    northern Maine
    Fish are very susceptible to all kinds of agricultural chemicals. Dead fish will get the attention of EPA, perhaps faster than dead people.
     
  16. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,345
    Likes:
    14,625
    Possibly, but the authors of the paper are saying that the effect of glyphosate on fish digestive function provides evidence that glyphosate might be linked to human celiac disease and gluten intolerance, and fish are not even mammals.

    However, I realize now that this paper is not in fact an experimental study performed by the authors, but rather an analysis of existing data. The fish data was already available, and they are just analyzing it.
     
    jimells likes this.
  17. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,997
    Likes:
    6,099
    northern Maine
    This is really disturbing. I used to grow a few acres of wheat every year, mostly for my own table use and for chicken feed. I never found it necessary to use any kind of desiccation other than to let the crop ripen on its own. It knows what to do without our "help". I've never heard of using herbicides in this way. Certainly nobody talked about it when I was farming 30 years ago. Sometimes moisture levels in stored grain can be too high; the traditional method was to use a grain dryer which blows air or heated air through the grain.

    Pesticide labels have the force of law. That means if the applicator fails to follow the label instructions, the applicator is violating federal law. The labels even specify how many times each pesticide container is to be rinsed (three, IIRC) and what to do with the rinsate (dump it into the sprayer).

    If Roundup is being used as a desiccant, that would have to be allowed by the label, somehow. I'm guessing application rates for desiccation are much higher than for killing weeds, and being applied just before harvest, there would be little time for sunlight, etc. to break down the herbicide. Not good.
     
  18. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

    Messages:
    858
    Likes:
    1,079
    There are numerous theories as why wheat is a problem for people these days. Some people think that it has to do with Glyphosate. Others say that modern wheat has been bred to contain more of the protein gliadin which helps to produce higher crop yields for farmers but may be hard for humans to digest.

    The other factors to consider are bromide, added to some breads, and the time that is spent allowing the bread to rise. From what I understand certain toxins are nullified during the rise time. If that time is shortened, as is commonly done to expedite industrial production, the toxins aren't removed as effectively.

    I know that my girlfriend, who has severe reactions to certain breads, does better eating bread that is locally produced from small bakeries instead of mass produced brands. She seems OK eating sourdough too, which I think has to be allowed to rise for a long time in order to impart it's specific flavor.

    I would guess that small bakeries are also less likely to use bromide. It's a tossup, as far as we're concerned, as to which of these is the main culprit.

    If you really want to eat bread, my recommendation is to buy it from local bakeries or make it yourself.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2015
  19. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,997
    Likes:
    6,099
    northern Maine
    The graphs showing "Glyphosate on Wheat" look impressive, but what are they measuring? Is it the total amount of Roundup applied to all the millions of acres of wheat? If so, the number means little, as crop acreage varies widely from year to year, and the amount applied to any one field depends on conditions.

    A number showing the amount of Roundup per bushel (or per kilogram) would mean a lot more to me, personally.
     
  20. Ecoclimber

    Ecoclimber Senior Member

    Messages:
    988
    Likes:
    2,424
    My father in law use to farm ten thosand acres of wheat in which I helped out doing the summer months at harvest time. There's winter wheat and summer wheat. He worked extensively with the Washington State University Agriculture Dept. He worked with Nobel Peace Prize winner Vogel on the deveopment of the Gaines variety of wheat grown in the Pallouse. I use to spray wheat for rust(fungi) prior to storing in his elevators. He used herbicides depending upon time of year, location, temp mostly Dimethoate, Parathion, Asna. Their family did not experience any gluten intolerance. So it must be a genetic predisposition that gives rise to gluten intolerance.
     
    jimells likes this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page