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Is Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia a Useful Diagnostic Marker in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Patients?

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by JaimeS, May 31, 2016.

  1. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    M.E. Roerink, J.W.M Lenders, I.C. Schmits, A. Pistorius, H. Knoop, J.W.M. van der Meer

    Researchers from Germany and the Netherlands

    From http://www.jpsychores.com/article/S0022-3999(16)30280-X/abstract -- but you can see the whole (rather useless) article right there.

    CDC Consensus Criteria (which is... what?) patients were compared with patients with chronic fatigue symptoms who did not meet this criteria.

    ....oh, it's the Fukuda criteria. So they compared Fukuda patients with patients with unexplained fatigue; and patients in both groups had similar (low!) incidence of POTS.

    I'm not sure what the difference between these two groups would be in the first place! Fukuda isn't very specific.

    Sorry to present you all with something so useless! It's really too bad, if they'd used the CCC or something more specific, I would have been very interested to see the results. They had large cohort numbers, too; it's a shame.

    -J
     
  2. Gijs

    Gijs Senior Member

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    Fortunately there are no CBT/GET studies done with POTS, so there conclusion is very poor and useless. They really would like POTS patiënt follow CBT too so they can also ignore these symptoms, i guess. They are real Dutch quackers. CBT is a very dangerous religion.
     
  3. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    @JaimeS do you mind copying and pasting the abstract when uou post a new publication? My ipad often tome canno open the links so i ca't see them. Thx.
     
  4. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Unfortunately I remember one: astronauts who returned with POTS and were given a type of GET. I don't have the reference handy, but years ago they were trying to apply this therapy to ME/CFS patients with POTS.
     
  5. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    I didn't cut-and-paste because the whole thing is a pdf. However, they did have the following in text:

    Background: Recently it has been suggested that the postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS) is an objective diagnostic marker in patients with chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). In a large Dutch CFS cohort, the prevalence of POTS was compared to the prevalence of POTS in persistent fatigued patients who did not meet CDC consensus criteria for CFS. Second, it was assessed whether CFS patients with POTS are less physically active, more impaired or respond differently to treatment with cognitive behavior therapy (CBT) as compared to CFS patients without POTS.
     
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  6. mango

    mango Senior Member

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    @Kati
     
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  7. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    Thank you @mango, that's the abstract :thumbsup:
     
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  8. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    And oh dear. How did this one passed peer review?
     
  9. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    ....peer review? Gee, what's that? ;)

    -J
     
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  10. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    Somehow I doubt that those people consider themselves recovered.
     
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  11. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member

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    I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that that is not the abstract, but rather the entire "paper."
     
  12. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

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    I'd point out that criteria for POTS are often a mess, so that the same patient can be placed in both the POTS cohort and the fatigued without POTS cohort by different investigators. We have even had a forum member with a heart rate of 150 told he did not have POTS because he just had a high heart rate. (His sitting rate was assumed to be basal because the doctor didn't feel that sitting presented any effort. )

    Myself, I do not claim to have POTS, but do show neurally-mediated hypotension (NMH). Some doctors would amend this to neurally-mediated syncope (NMS) then tell me I don't have it because it takes me some 20 minutes to pass out. ("So it's normal for people like me to lie down if forced to stand for 20 minutes? Could you tell the manager at Walmart?")

    I'm working on a blog post concerning functional sympatholysis, a concept which has been conspicuous by its absence w.r.t. several patients who have sought treatment for POTS. If this were working correctly I think their problems would be decidedly less severe. This happens to tie in with recent research on cellular hypoxia and purinergic signalling.
     
  13. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    .....this just makes me fume. The assumptions and arrogance. "If it's not an effort for me, it's not an effort for anyone." Lovely.

    Looking forward to that blog post, @anciendaze !
     
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  14. Justin30

    Justin30 Senior Member

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    What is wrong with people on this planet wasting money on research like this?

    I just dont know what to say as they pray on the sick and weak....keep then housebound...ruin their lives....etc.

    And why so you dont have to help them....so you gleem glory in their suffering and pat your egos little back....live a day in our shoes

    This world makes me sick some days!
     
  15. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    I was wondering about why publish research like this. Here's my answer.
    1. It took a day to write this up.
    2. Look! Name under publication. Forward email congratulating me for publishing to boss / head of dept
    3. Job safe for another day!
    4. Back to actual research that has actual scientific merit
    van der Meer, for one, has done some actually useful studies once in awhile.

    With the 'publish or perish' model, scientists definitely feel pressured to put their name on something, anything... And more frequently than is logistically possible. But bureaucrats don't know how long actual, high-quality research takes, so.

    It's like so much in the world of work, today: just do it faster. 'Better' is immaterial, especially when there are so few who are qualified or educated enough to really judge the merit of scientific work.

    -J
     
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  16. Justin30

    Justin30 Senior Member

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    Im glad your brain still works at @JaimeS....

    Reading this waste of time and money just irritates me.
     
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