The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
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Is it mold illness if VIP lab normal but TGF B1 off the charts?

Discussion in 'Addressing Biotoxin, Chemical & Food Sensitivities' started by Ally_A, Jun 27, 2015.

  1. Ally_A

    Ally_A

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    Is mold a potential factor in one's illness if one's VIP lab by Quest is NORMAL (38), but their TGF B1 is 25,000 off the charts high?

    I thought all mold illness had low VIP?

    I am trying to justify getting a Real Time lab done--it's so expensive.
     
  2. Forebearance

    Forebearance Senior Member

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    I think Dr. Shoemaker has a list of four or five lab tests that need to be abnormal (by HIS reference ranges) in order to diagnose a person with mold poisoning. Or CIRS, as he calls it.

    On his website, this page might contain the most important tests:

    http://www.survivingmold.com/diagnosis/lab-tests

    I don't find a list there of how many of these tests need to be abnormal (plus HLA-DR results need to be susceptible to mold or to multiple toxins). But back in his Mold Warriors book, he listed which tests he used back then to diagnose people.

    I hope that helps a little!
    Maybe these days Dr. Shoemaker assumes people will go see a mold aware doctor in order to get dianosed. But back when I did it, I had to figure it out myself.
     
  3. out2lunch

    out2lunch Senior Member

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    Actually, Quest might be one of the labs that does the VIP test "incorrectly" according to the docs who treat biotin illness. I know Labcorp is considered unreliable, so maybe Quest is as well.

    My first two VIP tests done through Labcorp, many years ago, showed normal levels, even though my TGF-B1 was through the roof.

    But my latest VIP test done through ARUP found my level below 13, which is much too low. The ARUP test is definitely more sensitive.
     
    Forebearance likes this.
  4. Ally_A

    Ally_A

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    Interesting. My labs were done through Quest per Shoemacker--as he specifies, and sent to the lab though Quest that he specifies. So confusing.

    Did you guys treat your mold effectively?

    How do we lower TFG-B1? I am working on my "biological terrain" and foundation but with a TGF B1 at 25000(!) I am wondering if I need serious help in lowering the load. The problem is-- my detox pathways are seriously compromised.
     
    Forebearance likes this.
  5. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Possibly losartan, according to Shoemaker.
     
    Eeyore likes this.
  6. Forebearance

    Forebearance Senior Member

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    If Dr. Shoe says the Quest you used is okay for VIP, I trust him.
    You poor kid, having such a high TGF B1!
    I'm still working on detoxing mold toxins. It is taking me a really long time. Sigh.
    I hope you find ways to feel better.
     
  7. Eeyore

    Eeyore Senior Member

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    This is really interesting. Losartan is currently being studied in patients with the most severe form (Type IV Vascular) Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, which is genetic in origin. It is also seeing use in other forms of EDS and Marfan's. It also seems to be unique to losartan among all the other drugs in its class (angiotensin receptor blockers).

    I suspect losartan does something with collagen, although I'm not certain what - but it could be very useful. Understanding the mechanism could be even more interesting in that it might possibly help explain connections between ME and Ehlers-Danlos / hypermobility.

    The study I'd love to see is whether ME patients with hypermobility have higher levels of TGF-Beta than ME patients without it, and whether it correlates with Beighton score. Also interesting would be whether there is a difference between men and women, since ME affects women far more than men, and EDS does as well.

    Is EDS entirely genetic, or is there an environmental, and modifiable (!) component to it? Would the same treatment help ME patients?
     
    Isaiah 58:11 likes this.

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