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Is growing your own probiotic yoghurt possible?

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by RustyJ, Apr 30, 2011.

  1. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    Hi Anne. I am a little bit deflated at the moment, I had a couple of failures (1 in 5). Not sure why - maybe because the weather is a lot colder. I use the easiyo method which doesn't maintain a constant temp. Nor do I boil the milk. Perhaps I need to boil milk, but I don't really have the energy to boil milk every time. The big advantage with the easiyo was its simplicity.

    So I am debating whether to start new methodology of boiling milk and trying to find a warm place for fermenting. Stuck on finding a warm place too. Only possibility is behind the fridge. In a real dither at ATM.:(

    Maybe I could microwave milk. That would only take a few minutes.:victory: So I'll do that for a while and keep using easiyo flask to see if I have any more failures.
  2. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    Hi Adster. I noticed she uses a heating pad. I was reluctant to go down that road because of the cost of electricity. Basically the thing would be on 24 hours a day, every day. but I wonder how expensive they run at? Anyone have any info on this? I need to do some investigating.
  3. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    Hi Rusty. If you use a 35 watt heating pad or heating belt(normally used for brewing beer) it will cost about 20c a day to run(here in Australia). The only thing I'm not sure if is if you would need a thermostat to maintain the temperature. I'm not sure how critical it is. I see you can pick up electric ones on ebay that have a heater built in, but they also switch off after 12 hours or so, which I think is not what you want.
  4. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    I saw a lot of pads used for pets. They were only 7 watt, got temp up to 35 degrees. Not sure if need to go up to 35 watt, will have to look into it. But yes, the cost of running a heating pad seems negligible. In fact if you run the 7 watt pad every day, all day, it only chews up about $10 Oz a year.

    Or alternatively as suggested by carolwxyz99 on this thread, a yoghurt maker, which has a built in thermostat, suddenly now becomes a viable option. I looked up the Moulinex and think its wattage was pretty low (14?}. Similar or cheaper than a pad, and certainly more practical. Glass too. Some have a timer. Although not sure if this is necessary.

    Point is if you have to shell out for a pad, you might as well buy a yoghurt maker.

    I sorta scoffed at the suggestion of using the Moulinex, my apologies to Carol but I am certainly leaning that way now. May have to import, still looking for an Australian outlet close by. Moulinex have an importer here.
  5. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    Hi Anne. Don't forget, you can get the bifudus which can be out of the fridge from iHerb. I am going for it. Let us know how you go with the prebiotics.
  6. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    Hi Rusty. Sorry my reply was confusing, my head is not good today. I was suggesting the option of an electric yoghurt maker might be a good one, that's what I meant were available on ebay. There's a moulinex one one there at the moment, if you were interested.
  7. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    Hi Adster. Ha, I saw it. Considering a sniping bid at the last minute. It seems the oz Moulinex distributor doesn't bring them in anymore, from their email reply.

    Appreciate the heads up, though. Does the moulinex switch off after 12 hours?
  8. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    Not sure on the timer on that one. Did you end up bidding? I've ordered some powdered goats milk and some yogourmet starter and will give making some yoghurt a try in a few weeks. Assuming customs doesn't take my stuff, that is!
  9. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    Hi Adster. Lost the bid. Lost a bid on another machine also. Giving up on ebay. Will only buy at full price. Now looking at getting something with single jar now, maybe 2ltr/qrt, rather than the little jars. Maybe a breville (only 1ltr) locally and replace the plastic jar with a canning jar. None of them have thermostats and there are bad reviews about temperature control.

    I want a large capacity jar, ultimately glass (can always buy glass jar separately) with good temp control. Anyone got any ideas on a suitable yoghurt maker?

    I still think the first problem is that I am not sterilizing the milk. So before I lash out buying another kitchen appliance which sits gathering dust, I should boil up some batches to see if I will stick to it.

    I find that I have to make things as easy and as simple as possible otherwise I will not keep at it.
  10. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    Ebay is hard work, and often overpriced. The other thing I've seen on the internet that apparently works is an Esky(drink cooler) filled with warm water. You could wrap it in blankets etc to keep it warm longer if need be.
  11. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

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    Those ones with the little jars are a pain. The jars are only 160mls and fiddly to wash and sterilise. Well, too fiddly for me anyway :D

    Have you had a look at a Kambrook model Rusty? I know that brand used to be recommended on a down-under SCD support group. I haven't had a look myself...but assume they'd have a glass jar inside?

    I heat the milk on the stove ONLY at a time when I have to be standing up there doing something else anyway Rusty. Then I place the pan away somewhere for the milk to come down close to room temperature or a little above. Then, again, when it suits me I sterilise the jars, add the milk and starters and pop them in the cupboard.

    .....Then there's the whole 3am thing of course...that's inconvenient! But I always do that like a zombie and pretend it never happened....

    I want to make Natto (to grow bacillus subtilis, and for the enzymes and Vit K) and I'm going to use a chilly bin/esky. It has a bung, into which we've put a cork with a mercury thermometer running through so I can read the inside temperature without opening it. I'm going to use 2 hot water bottles wrapped in towels as my heat source. If it seems to hold enough heat through the night I might make my yogurt in it too. Making natto is a once a month job so hopefully it won't be too much drama.

    Another heat source I've been using is my slowcooker. I suspended a wire basket from a shelf above it and popped a polystyrene box over the top and sides of the basket and found the temperature in the basket was exactly right for yogurt. But it's only once a week or so I use the slowcooker for a full 24 hour stretch. Theres no way it would be worth running it especially to make yogurt.

    People often use their ovens with a light inside...either a reading lamp sitting in there and left on with the door open, or I think in some ovens you can switch the oven light bulb for a stronger one and use that as your heat source. But, I'm not sure I'd sleep so well at night with either of those options...may as well be getting up to fill hot water bottles!!

    I hope you find something that suits Rusty. An alternative to heating the milk might be to use UHT milk straight from the box in an electic maker. I think that's a pretty reliable method.

    Best, Anne.


  12. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    Hi Anne. Some good tips there. Thanks. Actually read about setting up a cupboard with a light bulb to provide warmth. The hot water bottles in esky might be a go too. I would be very interested to hear if this holds temperature and at what range. You may still have to wrap esky. I don't think they are great insulators.

    I need to buy a thermometer. Boiled (near to) milk in the microwave last night - only took 6 minutes. Boiled up water in jug and rinsed out plastic tub prior to adding culture. Pretty happy with that process. But need thermometer to be sure of temps.

    Do you use a double boiler. No burning of milk? Kambrook is now Breville, I think. Saw them. Very much considering this, however they have a 10 hr timer. Not sure if you can just turn timer off.

    To cool down milk, I used ice and water in a tray. All up from boil milk to closing lid on easyo, took 20 minutes. Not too bad.
  13. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    Hi Anne. Some good tips there. Thanks. Actually read about setting up a cupboard with a light bulb to provide warmth. What about getting an electric wire for a light bulb through the esky bunghole.

    I need to buy a thermometer. Boiled (near to) milk in the microwave last night - only took 7 minutes. Boiled up water in jug and rinsed out plastic tub prior to adding culture. Pretty happy with that process. But need thermometer to be sure of temps.

    Do you use a double boiler. No burning of milk? Kambrook is now Breville, I think. Saw them. Very much considering this, however they have a 10 hr timer. Not sure if you can just turn timer off. [Edit. it appears they are no longer in stock.]

    To cool down milk, I used ice and water in a tray. All up from boil milk to closing lid on easyo, took 20 minutes. Not too bad.
  14. slayadragon

    slayadragon Senior Member

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    twitpic.com/photos/SlayaDragon
  15. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

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    Aww rusty sorry missed that!

    I use a heavy (arcoflam) pan to heat the milk and I do it slowly and stir it once or twice during heating. A little sticks on the bottom but not enough to spoil the milk. I guess a double boiler would be ideal.

    I haven't attempted natto yet - can't seem to source the b. subtllus natto here. I even went into a sake bar and asked if anyone there had any contacts willing to supply me with any. :D

    I've experimented with Yakult a bit. Mine turns out nice and thick, not at all like the starter (which may not be cultured very long I guess) but the flavour is not nice at all - no wonder they add all that sugar to it!

    At the Invest in ME conference one of the researchers who gave a presentation apparently mentioned the value of consuming fermented milks. And John Chia took notes. Good to know we're so cutting edge here LOL.

    Anne.

  16. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    Hi Anne. Thanks for response. I am in a hiatus atm. Realised all the failures were probably due to the original probiotic dying. It seems to be a weak link in the whole process. I only had it for three weeks (kept in fridge). Not sure how viable it was in the first place. Just goes to show, perhaps a lot of probiotics are dead or on the way out when you buy them.

    Have you had any problems with dud probiotics? I will now order the bifudus from iHerb - doesn't need freezing, so hopefully it will be viable for longer.

    I am convinced of one rule: stick to single strain so you know what you are getting. Maybe rotate single strains every few weeks so your system is not dominated.
  17. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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  18. slayadragon

    slayadragon Senior Member

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    It's been warm outside (about 110 in the sun) recently, so I decided to try making yogurt with my doctor's super-probiotic. It has a whole bunch of strains and is really potent. I just used regular milk, out of a new package.

    I was surprised at how fast and easy this was. Within about 6-10 hours, it has turned into at least a vague approximation of yogurt (not quite as thick as the stuff in the supermarket). It's a little odd tasting, but clearly "okay" -- actually, for me, extremely addictive. And I think it's much more potent than the powder it's made from. I had been addicted to that powder, but a small amount of the yogurt makes that craving go away.

    I did an experiment starting a batch from scratch, compared to starting a batch with some of the previously made yogurt. The previously made stuff got thick much faster.

    So overall, I feel like this is a success. Kefir is a lot less finicky, and so I'll probably be more likely to do that on a consistent basis. But for this moment in time, when I'm paying specific attention to my gut, this seems like a really good addition.

    I'm a little puzzled at why your suggestion is to stick to a single strain. Is there something that I need to worry about?

    Best, Lisa
  19. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    Hi Lisa, I don't know for certain, but from what I have read when you culture multiple strains some strains will dominate and crowd out the others. Eg common commercial yoghurts and many probiotics contain strains such as Lactobacillus which are easy to culture and will dominate.

    The theory is that if you start out with just one strain you can at least be confident that is the strain you are culturing, unless, of course, there are contaminating bacteria. If the cultured yoghurt tastes good, it should be fine. It is not an exact science, by a long shot.


    I have also read that there is very little independent testing of probiotics so you can never really be certain of the stated amounts on the label.

    Hope that makes sense.
  20. slayadragon

    slayadragon Senior Member

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    Yes, that does make sense. And I would imagine that the more times you reculture it, the more likely it will be that certain strains will take over and others will fall away.

    I still feel good about using my doctor's probiotic (which includes something like 18 strains) for this purpose. The yogurt I've been making seems like a good thing to me -- a lot better than just taking the powder itself.

    I bet those probiotics grow a lot better in the dish than in my intestines.....

    Thanks, Lisa

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