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Is CMV IgG antibody supposed to be lifelong positive?

Discussion in 'Diagnostic Guidelines and Laboratory Testing' started by hixxy, May 22, 2012.

  1. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    Russell Island, Australia
    Most recent testing for CMV IgG and IgM has been negative (titers not available in Australia), but I've just found a positive test from a different lab at around the exact time my health started to collapsed.

    Shouldn't this have stayed positive?
  2. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    it should, i was suppose to have had life long igg to ebv when i first had cfs, several years later i have had 2 tests both negative. But if your immune system is unable to produce antibodies then i suppose u could still have the virus but not have antibodies. some of the cfsers from the incline village outbreak initially tested positive to igg ebv and years later tested negative.

    VIDRL will test viral titres to cmv and u can get blood drawn from qml and they send it on for you if your doc specifies this on the lab request. Also make sure that your doc doesnt mention cfs or me on the lab request as they refuse to do this test as its not an immune disorder, supposedly??? But u have immune defiencies in lymphocyte testing so doc could mention this which should get u through the door. High cd8 markers are normally an indicator of cmv or ebv reactivation but in saying this a low cd8 count could also eg a low t-cell count in other immune disorders like aids and certain cancer and immunosupressive therapy is a risk factor for cmv infection as well. most adults have been infected with ebv or cmv, so if u show abnormalities in your t-cells then theres a good chance these viruses are causing you issues. I would also see if VIDRL will test u for ebv and hhv6 titres as well. I would be tempted to get that lymphocyte function test u were looking into as well. its more ammo to consolidate your diagnoses.
    http://www.vidrl.org.au/

    google cd4 and cd8 t-cells in cmv, you will get alot of hits.

    cheers!!!
  3. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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  4. Foggy

    Foggy

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    If you've had CMV in the past (common childhood illness), your IgG will remain positive throughout life. A positive IgM result means you have an active infection. CMV Avidity tests for newly infected.

    However, those of English decent generally don't get CMV, regardless if they live in another country (I fall into this category).

    Most government labs in Australia test for it (generally automated/analyser and quantitative).
  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    If you have had cmv then igg is suppose to be for life, apparently igm especially for cmv is not very reliable. The best educated guess/test for cmv being an issue is that either or both total lymphocytes are high and cd8 lymphocytes are high. VIDRL do cmv titres and i have seen it mentioned that viral titres of 1 or more indicate cmv could be an issue. Dont believe your doc if he just says u dont have igm titres so its not a problem and igg positive means its a past infection, it maybe past infection but doesnt mean its not reactivating or causing problems, Total lymphocytes and cd8 are a guide that cmv is an issue as well as general viral symptoms.

    In viral infection, the elevation in total lymphocyte count is caused by an increase in the absolute count of CD8 T cells.This occurs most dramatically in Epstein-Barr virus infection, but is also associated with other viruses such as acute CMV infection.The cytotoxic CD8 cells are able to kill infected cells, thereby limiting the dissemination of the virus.The CD8 count may remain markedly elevated for many months after the patient recovers.Other infectious diseases that may cause lymphocytosis include toxoplasmosis, in which CD8 T cells are selectively increased, and pertussis, in which all subsets are increased.However, in many infections the blood lymphocyte count remains within normal limits.
    http://www.sydpath.stvincents.com.au/tests/ImmunoFrames/lymphocytosis.htm
    https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1QEmWar_CwKfWaHhpzamSWgEAjd2S44CTUTiJk9QIeY0

    cheers!!!
  6. Jenny

    Jenny Senior Member

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    Many ME patients I know in the UK have positive IgG for CMV (and many healthy English people I know). What is the evidence that it is rare in those of English descent?

    Jenny
  7. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    does it say "negative" or "non reactive"? non reactive means no previous exposure..negative just means the antibodies are low...

    i think
  8. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    I participated in a trial to make a CMV vaccine (dumb thing to do, but didn't know it then). I had been non-reactive or negative, but the vaccine seemed to work and they told me I would always test postitive now.

    Sushi
  9. rlc

    rlc Senior Member

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    Hi hixxy, snap, when I first got sick my IgG for CMV was positive, eight months later negative no sign of past or present infection, which according to the literature is scientifically impossible! Possible explanations are the positive result is a lab error, some as yet unidentified cause has stopped the immune system producing IgG, or another possibility which I have had ruled out, but I don’t know if you have is that Lupus can cause false positive CMV IgG results see http://www.pathology.uci.edu/PathologyServicesManual/..%5CPathology%20Service%20Manual%5CCYTOMEGALOVIRUS%20(CMV)%20ANTIBODIES,%20IgG%20&%20IgM,%20SERUM.htm if you haven’t had lupus ruled out good information on diagnosing it can be found here http://www.lupuscanada.org/english/living/1000faces_sle1.html EBV can give false positives for CMV IgM so if a patient has had a past CMV infection giving them a positive IgG a EBV infection can give them a false positive IgM which makes it look like they have CMV, having lupus and EBV can also give the same false positive results.
    All the best
  10. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    interesting, i had a mono episode just before cfs onset or was the onset which was from cmv, although only igg found, i think igm dont last long so they need to catch it early to get igm antibodies. but a few months later had ebv mono, again only positive to igg, this test was neg when had cmv mono a few months earlier. ebv tests several years later have shown negative to ebv igg, that was before any antivirals?????. maybe this is all apart of the strange things that happen in cfs/me.

    cheers!!!
  11. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    CMV was about the only one I tested negative for out of about 5 or 6. I wasn't tested for many. Even though I tested way high for all the EBV antibodies, I've never had mono, except when I was probably very little and a baby fights it off very well. I've never had the mumps either, but all my friends sure had them.
  12. Foggy

    Foggy

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    Negative and non-reactive means the same thing.

    It depends on the manufacturer of the diagnostic kit. Abbott Diagnostics use reactive, non-reactive or grey zone along with a numeric value for tests plonked on an Axsym or Architect analyser. Biomerieux use negative, positive and equivocal for their analysers.

    I used to work in a serology lab and tested thousands of CMV's (among other viruses etc) where the above machines were used.
  13. Foggy

    Foggy

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    Soz, I didn't read your response in my last post.

    Not all English people are CMVG negative, there are just pockets in the population who seem not to acquire the virus for reasons unknown. Its the things you learn when you work in a diagnostic lab. I found this out when I tested my CMV levels.

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