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is brain fog caused by OI?

Discussion in 'Cognition' started by Aerose91, Mar 4, 2014.

  1. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    Through my first year of this i have experienced hrain problems that ive never heard another PWC talk about. Im massively, massively dissociated, major memory problems and frequent psychosis and dementia.

    Anyway, in the past couple weeks i have declined quite considerably and with this has come bad OI. Along with the OI has come brain fog. This is the more classic brain fog that PWC talk about but on top of what i already have. However it coincided directly with the OI, is this always the cause for brain fog?
  2. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Senior Member

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    Mine isn't. I have always had horrible brain fog but I do not now, nor ever had OI or any problems like that.

    Mine is worse when I'm sleep deprived or overly tired. I think it's just a function of the disease.

    I think the things you are talking about, the dissociation, psychosis and dementia might be caused by something else.
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  3. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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  4. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    My triggering illness for this was encephalitis so there was definitiely some brain inflammation there. However, since the encephalitis has cleared nearly a year ago my brain (dissociation, apathy,nothingness) has gotten much worse, almost always related to energy expenditure and since then hasnt improved at all. I had a SPECT scan done a while back because my brain was (and still is) so bad and MRIs came back clean. It showed massive hypoperfusion and the doctor reading it said that the pattern looked like mitochondrial damage and not inflammation but was also much, much worse than anything he'd seen from CFS/ME. im not ruling out that brain inflammation could still be present though.

    I very recently started getting OI and am now starting to have the more typical "brain fog" on top of the existing damage. They seem like very seperate issues to me so im wondering if anyone has brain fog outside of a blood flow reason. Would getting a mitochondria function test help explain the brain problems?
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  5. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    My probable trigger was measles encephalitis when I was seven. I had brain fog long before I had OI issues. However hypometabolism and hypoperfusion can exist without OI. I think its one or the other, or a combination of hypo-metabolism and -perfusion. Hypometabolism can look a lot like hypoperfusion on testing, I think. My own SPECT scan decades ago (21 years now?) showed substantive brain hypometabolism, and I was only a mild patient then. (Do recall that even a mild patient typically has less than 50% functional capacity, something I think we need to constantly be aware of in discussing many issues.)
    Sushi and SOC like this.
  6. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    @alex3619

    Would you equate hypometabolism to mitochondrial damage?
  7. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    I think so, I just think our OI is not the same as regular other people. The reason I think this is yes I had Brain fog all my life before OI, what I didn't realized is how much is OI that I had before I even think is what it was, The reason I know is because when I am on meds those symptoms go away, as soon as I stop they come back.

    Brain Fog,
    Insomnia, Sleep issues
    Swallowing, Gut mobility, Concentration...... Tones of stuff. And I had all this before the dizziness.
  8. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I would say that hypometabolism could be from mitochondrial damage, and possibly this is the most likely scenario, but its not necessarily from mitochondrial damage. Issues with specific enzymes, substrates, transporters, cytokines, autocrine hormones, intracellular messaging, oxidative stress (either from the mitochondria or some other source), viral infection, they are all possibilities and with a little time I could come up with a much longer list.

    I am particularly interested in non-lytic viral infection. These viruses can multiply, and make viral protein etc., but they do not lyse (destroy) the cell. We know from Alzheimer's and prion research that when foreign materials accumulate in a cell it stuffs up its function, and nothing quite works right. Virally infected cells in which the virus is slowly producing virus material could well have the same impact.

    As always, we need even more research.
    justy, taniaaust1 and SOC like this.
  9. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    Thats a very interesting theory. What i dont understand is how we can get a mitochindria dysfunction so quickly. And by quickly i mean instantly. Thats how this all hit for me anyway.
    Also, if viruses are such a huge component of this why dont doctors promote anti viral treatments sooner? Especially since this whole illness seems to be time sensitive
  10. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    "almost always related to energy expenditure".

    Sounds like it could be normal cfs fatigue
    or the result of OI. Do these feelings subside after you've rested? Eaten?

    Although I can't see psychosis or disassociation as being considered from cfs.

    Autistic kids get these symptoms and some are just reacting to proteins in gluten and dairy. Looking at the bio medical info on autism might help you tho.

    Avoiding anything that causes drowsiness helps. Oh and gluten for me.

    My cfs started with brain swelling too. Actually, my whole body flipped out. Most of my muscles were constantly in spasm. Ataxia, bladder spasms + +
    First symptom was virus that caused severe chest congestion. Then I was given antibiotics. If these were flouroquinolones, it's possible they did me in.

    Most of my local doctors were completely useless. And for some reason, this hasn't changed in the last 24 years.

    Tc ... x
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  11. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I think brain fog in ME has many causes eg many with ME can get brain fog from food intollerence or a chemical exposure due to coexisting MCS.. also various mineral or vitamian deficiencies can be adding to a ME persons brain fog). Simply having burnt onself out (post exertional symptom) can cause brain fog (due to probably mitochondria issue.

    OI issues I do thou think also have a huge impact on ME brainfog. Brain fog is one of my symptoms of worsening dysautonomia (OI) issues.. sign my blood is getting to my brain properly due to low blood volume.. effect of that= brain fog.

    Anyway.. I think ME symptoms in general are quite complex things.. you need to work out what is causing the ones in you which you have, to then be better able to treat or help the issue.
    merylg likes this.
  12. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    http://www.jcma-online.com/article/S1726-4901(14)00021-5/fulltext

    (Full text at this link.)


    A subset of us seem to have a close association with low RBC volume, where I think they mean total RBC volume, in other words, a surrogate for blood volume, or at least the total oxygen carrying capacity.

    These patients often have low blood flow in key areas of the brain, and it seems to be more important in POTS.

    This is part of what may be causing issues, at least in a subset of us.
    merylg and ahimsa like this.
  13. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    @xchocoholic

    No, none of my mental symptoms fluctuate at all, ever. Lying down, eating, sleeping- nothing. However if I overexert my dissociation and memory will become much, much worse. So far they have been permanent.

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