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Is B12 a miracle worker or not?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by MissFancypants, Dec 10, 2013.

  1. MissFancypants

    MissFancypants

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    Hello,

    I have been on here reading and reading and reading!, I have found this to be the best place for anything B12 as I have just started on mythly b12. I will tell you a shortened version of what I have gone through.

    Started about 3 to 4 years ago, just small things like hormones unbalanced nothing too bad just annoying, Drs of no help, I am an active person into sports and keeping fit always have good muscle tone and strength but I noticed things were getting weaker just a bit, I put it down to being in my 40"s but as time went on things went downhill, more hormal probs digestion trouble, Found I am celiac,H Pylori pos, went through the hell treatment but still suspect I have it, changed my whole diet and that made a lot of improvement, but still struggled with anxiety and panic attacks, brain fog from hell which I don't normally have! I went through a natropath as Drs were of no help and did make improvement but never quite all the way.

    Last year I began to have fatigue more often also my gall bladder was failing and had that out Jan this year. The fatigue got worse about July/August to the point of not being able to get off the couch, muscle weakness/ soarness, and strength was declining, then tremors and twitching, joint pain especially in the hip, heart jumping all over the place,my tongue became incredibly painful, I was back at the Drs as I was at the end of my rope I was encapable of doing bugger all, they ran all the tests said all was normal, see you later, have a nice day! To say I was angry was an understatement!

    I asked for my results, (BTW they refused to do a B12 panel) I noticed that on my heamotology that things were either just in range or right at the high end, when I googled them B12 deficiency came up repeatidly so I research the heck out of it, wow what an eye opener, I had nothing to loose so bought some Sun Ray Methlyb12,(its hard to get in Australia) started on about the 10th of Oct at 1200mcg sublingual, wow what a transformation, in about 10 days the muscle tremors were nearly gone I had energy! I felt strength returning to my muscles, I had drive back, I wanted to get out and do things, where as before I couldn't ride my bike the length of our driveway I was riding to school with my son!

    Then I had a bad day, I was shaking, weak, naseaus, headache, palpatations, a quick search and I though it was low potassium as I craved bananas! I started on coconut water and high potass foods and felt good again until last week when everything has gone downhill had that similar weakness, shaking, sweating ect when I was out in the garden but it was much worse, I didn't think I would make it back to the house!

    I got some Now potassium glucarate but I am a bit scared to take too much, so I have been having 2 aday ,It took along time to get somewhat better but not back to where I was, I am back with anxiety, brain fog, and oh my brain is MIA, moods are not good either, Does anyone know what has gone wrong? I'm not Me/CFS either, as far as I know anyway, I just don't know why I was so good then crashed badly. I take mag, zinc Vit c, iron spirulina, kelp, digestive enzymes, any help would be much appreciated oh and I hope this makes sense as brain fog has taken over!1
    J
    ust a quick edit my Potassium level was 4 on last test.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2013
  2. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi MissFancypants,

    I a lot of us need 200-3000mg of potassium daily in addition to dietary. Titr4ate the potassium by effect. You can have too much while you are having low potassium. If your tablets are like ours, they are 90-100mg each. I take 6 tablets at both of two meals plus 3 tablets with a glass of water twice a day.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2013
  3. MissFancypants

    MissFancypants

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    Thanks Fredd for your reply, what do you mean by " You can have too much while you are having low potassium"? My tablets are 99mg. I also feel incredibly cold right now even tho its quite hot outside, should I stop the B12? I do wish we could trade in our bodies when they go hay wire!
     
    Star-Anise likes this.
  4. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Sorry, typo; you can't have too much potassium when you are having low potassium symptoms that respond to potassium. I'm not talking stomach irritation. There is a lot of discussion about what is most comfortable for me it the potassium gluconate. The methylation startup can also cause folate insufficiency. L-methylfolate works everybody.

    Here are many of the usual symptoms from induced deficiencies when methylation starts.

    Temperature adjustment problems are very common symptoms. Some of the deficiencies can cause fever and chills.

    First I would suggest taking try taking a 300mg dose with a16 oz glass of water. That typically relieves low potassium for a few hours. Potassium in serum from food peaks 14 hours after consumption. A banana has about 500mg of potassium to put it proportion. A serving of some fish can have 1500mg of potassium. You need about 4000mg potassium a day normally And normally in the absence of kidney problems people excrete any excess potassium in their urine.

    Version 1.2 12/08/2013

    Group 1 – Hypokalemia onset. Symptoms may appear with serum potassium as high as 4.3. May become dangerous if ignored. Considered “rare” with CyCbl (Cyanocobalamin) it is very common with MeCbl (methylcobalamin) and AdoCbl (adenosylcobalamin) and less so with HyCbl (Hydroxycobalamin).

    There does not appear to be a clear order of onset. The order of onset varies widely from person to person but many appear consistent for each episode for any given person. There tend to be more and more intense symptoms as it gets worse. Some people have ended up in the ER because of not recognizing the symptoms.

    IBS – Steady constipation, Nausea, Vomiting, Paralyzed Ileum,

    Hard knots of muscle, Sudden muscle spasms when relaxed, Sudden muscle spasms when stretching , Sudden muscle spasms when kneeling, Sudden muscle spasms when reaching , Sudden muscle spasms when turning upper body to side, Tightening of muscles, spasms and excruciating pain in neck muscles, waking up screaming in pain from muscle spasms in legs. Muscle weakness

    Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), increased pulse rate, increased blood pressure

    Emotional changes and/or instability, dermal or sub-dermal Itching, and if not treated potentially paralysis and death.


    Group 2a - Both

    IBS – Diarrhea alternating with constipation, IBS – Normal alternating with constipation


    Group 2b – Either or both

    Headache, Increased malaise, Fatigue


    Group 3 - Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency

    These symptoms appear in 2 forms generally, the milder symptoms that start with partial methylation block and the more severe symptoms that come on as partial methylation block gets worse or very quickly with methyltrap onset.

    Edema - An additional thing I would like to mention. I would never have found it without 5 years of watching the onset of paradoxical folate insufficiency and trying to catch it earlier and earlier and to figure out what was causing it and to reverse it. For me the onset order goes back to the day of onset now with edema and a sudden increase of weight. I noticed that within 2 hours of taking sufficient Metafolin I would have an increase in urine output.

    Old symptoms returning

    Angular Cheilitis, Canker sores,

    Skin rashes, increased acne, Skin peeling around fingernails, Skin cracking and peeling at fingertips,

    Increased hypersensitive responses, Runny nose, Increased allergies, Increased Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, Increased asthma, rapidly increasing Generalized inflammation in body, Increased Inflammation pain in muscles, Increased Inflammation pain in joints, Achy muscles, Flu like symptoms

    IBS – Steady diarrhea, IBS – Diarrhea alternating with normal, Stomach ache, Uneasy digestive tract,

    Coated tongue, Depression, Less sociable, Impaired planning and logic, Brain fog, Low energy, Light headedness, Sluggishness, Increase irritability, Heart palpitations,


    Longer term, very serious

    Loss of reflexes, Fevers, Forgetfulness, Confusion, Difficulty walking, Behavioral disorders, Dementia, Reduced sense of taste, bleeding easily


    Group 4 - Hydroxycbl onset, degraded methylcbl onset, methylcbl after photolytic breakdown onset.

    Itchy bumps generally on scalp or face that develops to acne like lesions in a few days from start.
     
  5. daniariete2000

    daniariete2000 Senior Member

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    Hi Fredd ,

    but why taking so much tablet of 99 mg of potassium if you can have much much more by eating for example nuts, dry figs (expecially) , bananas etc... ??
     
  6. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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  7. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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  8. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    I think the idea is that if you need a high potassium supplementation (e.g. 2500mg) you may not want to have 5-6 bananas per day :) According to the Yahoo page one could implement a diet with potatoes, spinaches, maybe some tuna and orange juice to overload your body with potassium.

    Otherwise you can use both diet and a bit of supplements for the extra recharge. Personally I would prefer using food.

    With 800mcg M-Folate and 1000mcg M-B12 I am not having potassium related symptoms, but I do love bananas :) I usually eat 2 a day.
     
  9. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    i too prefer using food instead of supplements where i can..and you peter have u got any positive result from supplementing methylfolate and methylb12?
     
  10. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    I have been taking active B complex for a year and it has improved a lot of problems, when I started my homocysteine level was at ~100. Unfortunately the B complex contained lots of folic acid and very recently I discovered that I have MTHFR C677T +/+, so f.acid does not very much for me.

    It's too early to say about new improvements, I have been on metafolin for 3 weeks. I should also raise my B12 levels because of the "double whammy" issue with the MTR/MTRR, but at the moment I can't go much higher than 1000mcg.
     
  11. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    I prefer food too. BUT there is a problem. When one wakes up screaming with spasms in the middle of the night that is about when the potassium from lunch is reaching a serum max (14 hours after eating about). Tablets taken with water can provide relief within 30 minutes or so.

    I also can only eat 1500 calories a day or I would weigh 300 pounds. I can't get enough food containing potassium into me. I have to have supplemental potassium without a calorie load.
     
  12. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Ouch, yes. That's really bad. Of course supplements are super useful in those cases.
    Can you tolerate potassium tablets on an empty stomach? I have pretty low tolerance, with food it is a little bit better. They usually kick my stomach.
     
  13. MissFancypants

    MissFancypants

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    Thanks so much for all your replies! I was ready to stop my B12, when I have these episodes I also have a horrible angry mood, which is upsetting to me as I'm not usually like that, after having such life changing positive affects this was devastating, its so hard to know what to do when I have no Drs backup as all refused to test for B12, I thought I could just take the B12 and that would be that!
    Does the need for potassium ever end or is it something I will always have to take?
    Freddd could you or someone else explain the list of groups above, it that from low potassium or from the start up of B12, sorry I blame the foggy head, Do people fall into one group or the other?
    If this is methylation start up how long does it go on for?
    Sorry for all the questions but I am totally in the dark with this.
    xxx
    Oh one more should I start on a folate supplement?
     
  14. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    Group 1 – Hypokalemia onset. Symptoms may appear with serum potassium as high as 4.3. May become dangerous if ignored. Considered “rare” with CyCbl (Cyanocobalamin) it is very common with MeCbl (methylcobalamin) and AdoCbl (adenosylcobalamin) and less so with HyCbl (Hydroxycobalamin).

    Freddd, do you know why hypokalemia occurs with serum levels as high as 4.3?

    Thanks
     
  15. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    I can hypothesize based on a 2 compartment pharmacokinetic model and the reports of actual tests made by somebody on the forum or maybe message a couple weeks ago. The "fast" compartment is the serum. It is replenished by food and supplement intake. If it goes higher than the tissue level, a little bit makes it's way into the "slow" compartment, the tissue. The serum level supplies immediate demand. If immediate demand exceeds current absorption then the serum level goes down, quickly, and slowly is replenished from the tissue if there is no more input after the healing lets up. When I went into paradoxical folate insufficiency my low potassium symptoms disappeared and came back when I started dumping water. The pattern was there for years.

    The person who reported went to the ER and insisted on having her serum potassium tested. It was 4.x on the first test. They didn't give her potassium. The next test as she got worse was 3.5, 2 hours after that and then 3.2, 2 more hours later. I may be off a little. I couldn't find the actual report. But that is the idea. Her serum level dropped like a rock. I hypothesized that was what happened to me, and others at 4.3. I haven't had any reports from anybody who started higher and lots from 4.3 and down. She is the only report of 3 tests over several hours to demonstrate that.
     
  16. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi MissFancypants,

    A lot of people have both low potassium and low folate. If you look at the levels of methylation thread, first few posts by me, it explains the levels. They all can start separately. Towards the end of the thread are 6 posts of symptoms by effective nutrients.

    The amount of potassium can vary by how many levels are healing. I had much deferred and faulty tissue during 20+ years of deterioration. How many years does it take to heal or replace a lot of not very good tissues? Certain B-vitamins if taken in too large a quantity can increase need for potassium and folate and cut back healing. As long as tissue formation is going on at a high rate potassium is needed. For instance, for me to put on 50 pounds of muscle, at an average of 90mg of potassium per ounce of muscle tissue, I needed an extra 72,000 mg of potassium (estimated) net, approximately.

    When methylation starts and the other things needed for healing are present, healing starts by the layer or level. This increases the need for potassium and folate typically, plus others if not supplemented. This need continues as long as healing continues but can vary over time, levels healing and other vitamins.

    This is my 11th year of healing and of extra potassium, 1200-1800 daily, down from 2000-3000mg, and of folate 4-8mg, down for 20+mg.

    The need starts with healing and ends when healing stops. The symptoms are only if need isn't satisfied. Starting methylfolate (not folic acid, not folinic acid or folinate or whatever) after potassium is balanced at your present level, then only leaves you with a differential amount of additional potassium if more levels start healing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
  17. MissFancypants

    MissFancypants

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    I have doubled my potassium and I have ordered some now powder as well, I feel sooo much better now and last night I had no horrific cramps waking me up! I have ordered some methylfolate and am looking at b complex I have come across pure encapsulations b complex plus or the one with added intrinsic factor in not sure which is the best B complex.
    Thanks Fredd for all your help, without all your experiences with this there would be so many more people suffering :)
     
  18. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    Okay, thanks, Freddd. I was just wondering if it was some sort of an absorption problem, similar to what you see in diabetes or adrenals disorders.
     

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