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Is 23andme still worth it?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by amaru7, Apr 4, 2014.

  1. Sporty

    Sporty

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    Hi

    So you strongly believe doing the 23andMe test is worth it? I've confirmed mitochondria deficiencies but think I need to find out if it have a meth blockage. Is the 23 test for me do you think?

    Cheers
    Simon
  2. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    http://chriskresser.com/the-nocebo-response

    I think this speaks for itself in regards to 23andMe. I think genetic testing can be useful, but for me I would want the practitioner to only tell me immediately important information or information that I can actively address at that time. If it was simply a case of being told I have an increased risk of dementia or whatever then I'd rather not know. I am going to live the healthiest lifestyle that I can and if my genes conspire against me then that is, very literally, life.
    amaru7 likes this.
  3. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    What are your Mito deficiencies Simon?
  4. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    Cheesus,

    you miss the point of the exercise. The SNPs picked up by 23andMe (or others) indicate what aspects of you metabolism make you more vulnerable to problems long before those issues occur. They allow you to identify food groups that are more healthy for you or more likely to cause problems. They also allow to to select supplements that lower your risk of contracting disease and allow improvement in health and vigour.

    Leo
  5. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    I get that, which is why I would still have one done. I just wouldn't want to know the results. I'd leave it to the practitioner to tell me what can be done in the here and now. Someone noted earlier in the thread that they found out they have a higher risk of lung cancer. I already quit smoking due to health concerns and I am going to live as healthily as I possibly can, including eating anticancer foods and keep on top of my health in other ways.

    The nocebo effect is a very real, tangible phenomenon, and I would be protecting my health by avoiding this information. It is a personal choice but it is one I feel quite confident about.
  6. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
    SOC and Leopardtail like this.
  7. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    I have been of the view for some time that it effects no more than evaluation/perception and would love to see more science that defines the limits of 'placebo'.
  8. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    I'd love to read that article but without paragraphs it is too much of a struggle. What were Project Syndicate thinking in publishing it like that?
  9. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    I struggled through the bulk of it.

    The article doesn't account for how a large study into heart disease would record 4x the number of deaths in people who knew they were at risk than people who did not. Moreover, the article I cited talks of other directly observable phenomena. For instance, researchers could physically see allergic rashes appearing after deceiving test subjects using false stimuli. Your article talks about pain and subjective experiences - things we cannot observe.

    Am I wrong? Did I miss something when I only managed to skim over the article?

  10. amaru7

    amaru7 Senior Member

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    In my opinion the noocebo effect is very real just like the placebo effect which has been proven in many cases. The mind has an extraordinary effect on our physical well being. So I agree with you cheesus. Personally I wouldn't give much into increased cancer, heart disease or dementia risk which I already partially have as I came to grips with my death because of the severity of my disease I've been thinking a lot and I'm not much afraid of dying because I think it has less painful and eventually everybody's going to die, rich(Steve Jobs, mj) or poor, healthy or sick, lucky or miserable, that's just a part of life even though most don't like to talk or think about it
  11. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    It is true that we are all going to die, but I'd rather put it off as much as possible. I'd also rather have the time before that as active and healthy as possible.

    But I do agree. The mind/body connection can be quite incredible. All other bodily systems are downstream from the mind/brain. It's just a case of being able to define how this is happening within scientific research so that we can better harness it for therapeutic benefit. I actually use a number of mind/body techniques but I do not like to talk about them on this website.
    amaru7 likes this.
  12. Sporty

    Sporty

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    Running at 53%......
    amaru7 likes this.
  13. amaru7

    amaru7 Senior Member

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    Of course my biggest wish is also to be healthy Because I'm really heavily disabled and can't even take Care Of Myself. Simple tasks like taking a shower or cooking or whatever are extremely challenging to me for example Nevermind working to earn a living. But I came to the personal conclusion that my cfs isn't be curable medically, so I will have to deal with it.

    My technique is to look at other people who are in an even worse life situation, like people starving everyday, homeless people who are also ill, rich and successful people who also die eventually, paralysed people, prisoners, or other cfs people on documentaries. That's the way I keep my additional mental suffering of not being able to do anything at bay and try to reduce my lifelong wish of having any success in life. I try to tell myself that it doesn't matter and that it'll be forgotten in a hundert years time anyway tryin to keep my pain small and low that way

    I'd like to know, what are your techniques? If you don't want to, you may pm me
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
  14. amaru7

    amaru7 Senior Member

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    25% atp over here.. How disabled are you? Like are you able to take care of yourself on your own ? You probably can't work though right? And how old are you?
  15. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Most likely the people who knew to be at risk actually were at higher risk and thus had higher mortality due to heart problems. Without actually seeing the study of course we don't know. I don't think it's wise to blindly trust studies making wild claims, or jump to conclusions that A caused B when there is nothing more than a simple correlation. One should investigate a little bit.

    The same is true for the allergen study as well, but I want to point out that curing or causing illness is very different from a brief temporary reaction described here.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
  16. Sporty

    Sporty

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    Hi,

    Yes I do work full time, but it's an easy job, hours wise. It's perfect in that respect really. I'm 45 now. On the face of it I live a normal life but I do have symptoms! Tired most of the time. 3/4 living rather than living full on.....
  17. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    Do you know the exact nature of the deficiencies? Or just the 'headline figure' - you used the plural, hence I assumed you had a clearer idea of what was happening?
  18. Sporty

    Sporty

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    No all I can remember from the report is my mitochondria is running at 56% and something about being magnesium deficient in those mitochondria.....
  19. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    I am that disabled too. I spend 24 hours a day in bed. Cooking is out of the question. If I have to go for an appointment in the car I need a blindfold and noise cancelling headphones.

    I use positive visualisation a lot - imagining myself doing all the things I used to do, but better. I image them without all the pressure I put on myself and being at ease with the moment and my life. I also meditate probably around 1/3 of the day. I feel my heart beating and know it is healthy and strong. At core I feel like I am a very healthy person, but there is just something of a missed connection or a block somewhere that needs to be overcome.

    I also look to all the good things in my life, like the fact that I have a family who love me very much and who are willing to look after me. I have my youth. I have financial stability. I have friends. I don't base these things on what others don't have (as in your case), I base them on what I do have. I have decided that I am extremely lucky to be who I am and I am grateful for it.

    Today is the first anniversary of my diagnosis (but obviously been ill for a while longer). By the next anniversary I expect I'll be substantially improved compared to where I am now. I'm 100% confident that I will regain my health in the end. Whether by medical advances, my own efforts or both. For the time being, it's a case of working through it and doing what I can here and now one step at a time.
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  20. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    Success is a socially constructed concept. Redesign what the concept means to you. To me success is about being at peace with the worldly winds that blow through my life. If I can be at home with whatever arises and passes away then I will never remain alienated from myself. I am a buddhist so this is what I practice day-to-day.
    taniaaust1 likes this.

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