Iron IV

[Chiron]

Today I got an iron IV about 300mg and I feel like hell. Migraine, malaise, elevated temperature, swollen legs. It's not an allergic reaction, just a general reaction. I really needed IV iron though because my iron stores are totally gone.

Any ideas on how to speed up the pace of recovery? I'm told these symptoms can last up to a week.

The mechanism is that the iron has to be transported to the bone marrow, where it then gets incorporated into new red blood cells. I have no idea how long it takes to end up in the marrow (can't find this info online). I'm assuming that's when I'd feel better, when so much iron isn't swimming around my blood.

Ugh... feeling so crappy.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Chiron I was just curious, did you have the iron infusion b/c your iron was low on blood tests or for some other reason? My iron is often low and my RBC's show borderline to mild anemia.

At one point, it was suggested that I have an iron infusion but (in my case), my mast cell doctor felt it was too high risk allergically. He said that for all of his patients who get iron infusions, he has them do the first one in the hospital (b/c the anaphylaxis risk is so high).

I have done IVIG and other infusions in an outpatient infusion center (and he had no issue with this) but said it would not be safe for iron. I recently started taking iron in pill form (just 25 mg) and so far it is going okay.

So, I am wondering if your reaction is an atypical allergic reaction vs. just feeling crappy from the infusion? Or, maybe it triggered an immune reaction of a different sort? All I can think is to take Tylenol, or something to reduce the fever, and maybe put ice or heat on your neck/legs?

 

[Chiron]

My ferritin is non-existent and my hgb is so low I'm having symptoms. I also can't absorb iron because of my GI condition, so the iron IV was needed.

I'm just feeling crappy from it, I think. I'm just trying to figure out how to ease this major discomfort until my body processes it. I have such a horrible splitting migraine.

 

[Hip]

I also can't absorb iron because of my GI condition, so the iron IV was needed.

Have you considered transdermal iron supplements? Compounds with a molecular weight of less than 500 daltons can cross the skin. Ferrous sulfate has a molecular weight of 152 daltons, suggesting it can be absorbed transdermally.

 

[Gingergrrl]

Have you considered transdermal iron supplements? Compounds with a molecular weight of less than 500 daltons can cross the skin. Ferrous sulfate has a molecular weight of 152 daltons, suggesting it can be absorbed transdermally.

That is really interesting and I was curious @Hip, do you know what is the difference between "Ferrous Sulfate" (in the transdermal iron you mentioned) and "Ferrous Bisglycinate Chelate" which is in the iron supplement (pill) that I recently started taking? Are they two totally different types of iron and is one better than the other?

The supplement I just started is called "Comfort Iron" and is 25 mg (low dose). Is the transdermal a much higher dose? Thanks in advance for any info.

 

[Hip]

Are they two totally different types of iron and is one better than the other?

The iron they deliver is the same, just locked into different chemical compounds. I don't know which is better; I expect there will not be much in it.

I am not sure how effectively an iron supplement will be absorbed transdermally, but it might be something to look into if you have a gastrointestinal condition like @Chiron's which gives trouble absorbing iron orally.

 

[Chiron]

Have you considered transdermal iron supplements? Compounds with a molecular weight of less than 500 daltons can cross the skin. Ferrous sulfate has a molecular weight of 152 daltons, suggesting it can be absorbed transdermally.

I had no idea such a thing was available. Can you recommend a product, even a prescription one?

 

[Hip]

I had no idea such a thing was available. Can you recommend a product, even a prescription one?

I am not sure if any products are available, but to achieve transdermal absorption you can crush an iron tablet into a very fine powder, apply the powder to a large area of skin (eg your thigh area), and add a few drops of water to help the powder soak into the skin.

 

[Chiron]

I wonder if doing that with DMSO would work.
I'd just be concerned about permanently staining the skin.

 

[Hip]

I wonder if doing that with DMSO would work.

My guess is that you would not need DMSO. Ferrous sulfate is water soluble, and has a pretty low molecular weight, which are factors that promote transdermal absorption.

 

[Chiron]

My guess is that you would not need DMSO. Ferrous sulfate is water soluble, and has a pretty low molecular weight, which are factors that promote transdermal absorption.

Sorry to need so much hand holding... could you direct me to a ferrous sulfate product that might work for this?

 

[Hip]

Sorry to need so much hand holding... could you direct me to a ferrous sulfate product that might work for this?

Any ferrous sulfate supplement in capsule form should be OK (capsules are more convenient than tablets for this transdermal purpose, as they already contain the supplement in powder form; whereas with tablets, you would have to crush the tablet into a fine powder first before applying transdermally).

What you do is pull open the capsule and sprinkle the powder onto a large area of skin (eg 1 or 2 square foot of skin), such as the area of skin on top of your thighs (that's an easy area to apply to when you are sitting down). Gently rub in the power, and add a just few drops of water afterwards to wet the skin and help the powder soak in. Then the iron will be slowly absorbed over the next several hours. So obviously this is best done just after your bath or shower, not just before the shower, else you will wash it off before it gets a chance to absorb.

So for example this ferrous sulfate supplement in capsules should work. And if you don't mind crushing tablets into powder (easily done using a tablespoon) then this ferrous sulfate supplement in tablet form should be fine.

You can get iron in other forms, and any forms that have a low molecular weight well below 500 g/mol, and have high water solubility should be fine. Here is the molecular weight and water solubility of various iron supplements:

Iron Supplement       Molecular Weight      Water Solubility
                      Grams per mole        Grams per 100 ml

Ferrous sulfate       152                   25.6
Ferrous fumarate      170                    1.3
Ferrous bisglycinate  204                   21.1       
Ferrous gluconate     448                   15.9

So you can see from this list that ferrous sulfate and ferrous bisglycinate should both be good for transdermal application, because they have low molecular weight and higher water solubility.

Here and here are ferrous bisglycinate supplements in capsules that should work just as well as ferrous sulfate for transdermal purposes.



I found this transdermal iron topical patch product for sale, so judging by that, it looks like transdermal delivery is viable. The product uses ferrous bisglycinate.

 

[Chiron]

Thanks for this info

Do you happen to know the minimum molecular weight for transdermal absorption in general? That could be useful info for considering other kinds of transdermal supplementation in the future. I'm assuming it's anything under 200, if ferrous sulfate is any indication?

 

[Hip]

Do you happen to know the minimum molecular weight for transdermal absorption in general?

There is no minimum, but the maximum molecular weight is around 500 g/mol. Once you start getting molecules larger than 500 g/mol then these molecules have difficultly penetrating the skin. This is known as the 500 dalton rule.

This why you will not get for example vitamin B12 methylcobalamin penetrating the skin, as methylcobalamin has a molecular weight of 1,344 g/mol, which is well over 500 (however, if you use penetration enhancement compounds as employed in the Australian B12 oils products, then you can get even B12 through the skin).

 

[Gingergrrl]

Very interesting thread and I have tried transdermal Magnesium and Glutathione (in past years) but it never would have occurred to me re: iron. It sounds like (if I understand correctly) that transdermal iron is not a product that you can purchase but it is possible to make it yourself.

 

[Hip]

that transdermal iron is not a product that you can purchase but it is possible to make it yourself.

I did manage to find one transdermal iron patch product: see the bottom of my previous post.

However, making your own transdermal application by the method I detailed in that post will work out cheaper, and may be more effective too (since with my method, you are applying iron to a much larger skin area than with a transdermal patch, hence you'll likely get better absorption).

 

[Gingergrrl]

I did manage to find one transdermal iron patch product: see the bottom of my previous post.

Thanks for the link and I totally missed it!

 

[keenly]

Today I got an iron IV about 300mg and I feel like hell. Migraine, malaise, elevated temperature, swollen legs. It's not an allergic reaction, just a general reaction. I really needed IV iron though because my iron stores are totally gone.

Any ideas on how to speed up the pace of recovery? I'm told these symptoms can last up to a week.

The mechanism is that the iron has to be transported to the bone marrow, where it then gets incorporated into new red blood cells. I have no idea how long it takes to end up in the marrow (can't find this info online). I'm assuming that's when I'd feel better, when so much iron isn't swimming around my blood.

Ugh... feeling so crappy.

Please look into Morley Robbins work.

 

[Learner1]

My daughter, who is celiac, became very depleted in iron at college. Her doctor here st home suggested iron IVs as every it on supplement she tried have her horrible intestinal symptoms. The doctors across the country balked as they said it was difficult to do iron IVs.

She came home and had 4 over a period of 2 months without any side effects. Our doctor here told us there are older iron products that were more problematic to use, but there is a newer product he uses that doesn't have the issues that the older iron IV products did.

Iron is something you want to get right. Though you definitely need a minimum amount for mitochondria and other things to work properly, too much can be damaging to your organs. It can also feed some of the infections common to many ME/CFS patients. If you do it at home, you'll want to make sure you have an iron panel done every so often to ensure you have the right amount.

 

[Chiron]

Please look into Morley Robbins work.

Funny you mention that... I did read some of her (his?) articles already. The problem is that she doesn't give a real strategy for getting iron that I can use. I have anemia of chronic disease... my inflammatory cycle has shut down all iron absorption. It's not really pathogen driven at this point. I know this because in 2016/17 I had an 11 month period of remission and my bowel healed. My iron numbers started to go up on their own. Then I flared again and it all went to hell.

I don't absorb iron from food and can't tolerate iron supplements, so I don't know what else to do. In May my blood got so low they had to give a blood transfusion, which is disgusting. I would much rather accept the risks of IV iron than receive someone else's blood... which has who knows what in it.

My daughter, who is celiac, became very depleted in iron at college. Her doctor here st home suggested iron IVs as every it on supplement she tried have her horrible intestinal symptoms. The doctors across the country balked as they said it was difficult to do iron IVs.

She came home and had 4 over a period of 2 months without any side effects. Our doctor here told us there are older iron products that were more problematic to use, but there is a newer product he uses that doesn't have the issues that the older iron IV products did.

Iron is something you want to get right. Though you definitely need a minimum amount for mitochondria and other things to work properly, too much can be damaging to your organs. It can also feed some of the infections common to many ME/CFS patients. If you do it at home, you'll want to make sure you have an iron panel done every so often to ensure you have the right amount.

My symptoms always get worse if I artificially raise my ferritin levels. If my body doesn't want to accept iron the natural way then I trust that wisdom. The problem is that my hemoglobin gets so low that I start having heart problems, so it really does need emergency intervention. My doctor offered iron injections which are smaller amounts, but because I'm fair skinned there is a risk that the injection could leave permanent tattooing on the skin if the injection leaks into the epidermal layers from the muscle.

There's just no ideal solution really.

The IV iron seems really irritating to my flares. Getting iron during remission times is no problem but during my flares seems to cause problems. I still feel like crap and now my bowels are bleeding even more, which defeats the purpose.

I'm so fatigued on top of it. My CFS is in full gear.

By the way it was iron sucrose I received, which is apparently the safest one. They don't do Cosmofer and all those high dose weird ones here in Canada.