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Iron + Folic Acid = Low Potassium?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by arx, Jan 23, 2014.

  1. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Hi,

    This might be pretty basic, and related to RBC production, but I'd still like to know if it's normal.

    I am low in iron. Not anaemic, just iron deficient.

    So I started supplementing it with a tablet that has 100 mg of elemental iron (from ferrous ascorbate) and 1.1 mg of folic acid.

    Since I had these at home, I started taking them. I also couldn't feel any difference between folic acid and l-methylfolate in my previous experiments with methylation, so I don't say no to folic acid.

    After my third dose on the third day (taking one a day during lunchtime), the next morning (today) I experienced the following:

    • Profound physical and mental fatigue - unable to get up from bed
    • Drowsiness
    • Muscle spasms
    • Headache
    • Tingling at random places
    Soon I took some potassium and magnesium citrate, and felt much better in a couple of hours.

    I know B12 and folate induce a potassium deficiency, but I only take two methyl-b12 1000 mcg tablets in a week, that too orally and not sublingually. This was quite intense, so I thought I should share it here.

    So I guess one should keep an eye on potassium when supplementing iron, considering RBC production and most of the potassium is required by the new cells?

    This might be similar to the potassium loss experienced during B12 startup, except iron is using the available B12 in the body, considering there's little supplementation of it.. or maybe I'm just sensitive.

    Thanks! :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2014
  2. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Arx,

    That is a clear yes. Hypokalemia when boosting red cell production is well known regardless of what caused the problem. MeCbl is recycled over and over. It is used up by toxins but not in the normal scheme of things. It acts as a catalyst and ends the cycle ready for the next. It is excreted however. 98-99% of the MeCbl as a supplement in some form is excreted in 1 to 2 days unchanged. It is not a net methyl donor. It cycles around in circles donating a methyl group and receiving a methyl group. If one starts from HyCbl then it has to get a methyl before it can give a methyl and enter the cycle. 98-99% of HyCbl is excreted unchanged in 1 to 2 days. It is the same for all forms according to the research.
     
  3. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Thanks @Fredd! :)

    So I guess it must be only potassium that's needed when boosting RBC production? Any co-factors you know of that are needed too?

    Today is much better than yesterday, but it always takes me a couple of days to recover from low potassium. Maybe I need some more potassium.
     
  4. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Arx,

    It also requires MeCbl, l-methylfolate, AdoCbl, LCF, and basically all the usual vitamins and minerals not to be deficient. Potassium is one thing that lack of doesn't stop cell production until it stops the body from living
     
  5. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Hmm. Yeah. I guess I'll supplement some of those and wait it out and see when it gets better. I'm hoping it's just potassium and a bit of sugar. If depletion of any of the above has taken place, gosh, it's gonna be hard to just supplement iron!
     
  6. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    @Freddd

    Any data on how much potassium deficit is created by iron?


    I took like 1500 mg of potassium to feel a bit better.

    I'm wondering how much more would be safe. I know potassium is serious, and so are potassium blood tests - seriously expensive. I've taken potassium around 2500 mg during methylation protocols. I'm wondering if it could be the same amount needed now.. it's too confusing.

    Trial and error with potassium is not a good idea, is it? Hyperkalemia and Hypokalemia have similar symptoms..

    What do you think?
     
  7. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Arx,

    First, I'm wondering what is giving you this idea? What got it started; do you have kidney damage? Have you been measured with high serum and tissue potassium?

    I don't know where you live. I'm in the USA. In the USA the average diet is said to contain only about 3/4 of the typically needed amount of potassium. If one does some reading hypokalemia is a not uncommon side effect of receiving B12 for anemia. They were speaking of people being given CyCbl for macrocytic anemia, back when that got alerted at > 93. It was ASSUMED that the hypokalemia was caused by a lot more red cells getting made. I've met people with pernicious anemia. They often have high uMMA. They look and move like the living dead. That means that they have a nasty set of symptoms attendant a severe partial ATP block which looks an awful lot like CFS except that they have high MCV. It takes years to get there so they have the same body breakdown and problems over the years. The also then get low potassium if healing starts up.

    So when healing starts up and a lot of tissue is getting made, a person is likely to go low on potassium, especially since most are not eating enough potassium in the first place. If a person is taking potassium in response to symptoms that occur when healing and tissue formation start how could they be having high potassium. If a person is taking enough to keep it under control and not 50% or 100% more for a prolonged period, unless they have kidney damage, please explain the route by which they could have high potassium. Everything I have read about potassium says that it is very difficult to actually have high potassium, that it requires perseverance in consuming way too much potassium for a long time. It can't happen overnight. Now a person with insulin problems might have trouble managing transient serum potassium levels as it is the insulin that helps get the potassium into tissues but their problem is often then the opposite, a tissue deficiency.

    As a body needs 4000mg or thereabouts a day, and the average consumption is about 3000mg, if a body is healing and needs 5000mg a day then 2000mg additional needs to be supplied every day to keep from getting dangerously low. To get it high a person would have to have kidney disease or something wrong preventing it from being excreted in the normal course of business. There are a number of prescription time release potassium products for those "unable to comply with frequent oral doses". There are plenty of diuretics that cause too much potassium to be dumped in the urine. There are other drugs that cause hyperkalemia. Are you taking any of those drugs? If you are you should be aware of the side effects and discuss this with your doctor.



    SO what are the reasons you think you could be going high.
     
  8. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Arx,

    Also, folic acid can be a very poor choice for many. L-methylfolate never causes the problems folic acid can.
     
  9. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Hi Freddd,

    Nope. I don't have kidney damage or high potassium (the last time I got checked).


    Hmm. Yes. You're right.

    No, I am not taking any diuretics or any drugs.

    Logically there is no route in my mind which I can tell you. Everything I read about potassium comes with a disclaimer to be very careful about it. I haven't got a potassium test recently. Instinct has served me right and I take potassium whenever I think the symptoms are because of low potassium.

    I also estimated the need to be around 5000mg. I live in India and haven't calculated my average daily consumption of potassium yet. I should do that.

    The whole confusion comes when I feel the need to take more potassium, at the same time not aware of my own potassium levels. That's when I feel maybe I'm taking too much or something like that. It's natural to be worried, as one is experimenting on his own :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  10. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Arx,

    For whatever it is worth or not, In 11 years of this I have met one person with high potassium and she has kidney damage. I develop spasms, missing even one dose so I'm always on that edge. The potassium gets rid of the symptoms starting in 20 minutes and complete in an hour typically, and yet can return in 5 hours.
     
    arx likes this.
  11. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Thanks @Freddd!

    As always, your experience and knowledge is extremely useful :)
     

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