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Ionic Minerals - Fulvic or Humic Acid - Recommendations & Experiences?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Jigsaw, Apr 23, 2017.

  1. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I need some help :)


    Thinking about getting some ionic minerals.

    I used to take a colloidal (I think it was colloidal, not absolutely sure) mineral supplement way back in the mid 1990's, and despite it being from Neways (now apparently rebranded as Modere), it did seem to help.

    Looking online for a likely product has got me bewildered by the array of manufacturers out there, all, natch, claiming benefits over their competitors.


    So I have some questions that I hope people here will be able to answer for me. All feedback appreciated :-D




    There's ionic vs colloidal, fulvic vs humic acid, concentrates and non-concentrates, and none of them seem to offer proper ingredient profiles. They say things like "Contains 70 vital minerals!" Great, but I'd like to know how much of each mineral is in there. I wouldn't buy a multi vitamin or a multi mineral or a multi amino or a B complex, etc, without knowing precisely what's in it. I don't think many of us would. Why does this have to be any different?

    **(And I thought sea-salt has something like 84 minerals, so why should a full-spectrum mineral supplement conain less? Would I be better off just continuing to take my sea-salt even after I've passed through my iodine / bromide detoxing, which is what I'm currently taking it for?)

    - I get it that it might not be easy or even possible to quantify because fulvic acid and humic acid are the source, no-one is exogenously adding specific amounts of whatever mineral, but why can't any of them specify at least a range for each mineral in there? Is there an ionic mineral product that does list everything in it?

    Are they all stupidly expensive? - they seem quite cheap in the US, but I'm in UK, and no longer buy anything from iHerb because now the exchange rate is so poor, after they've added customs charges, added the shipping, added the shipping companys' admin fee, then added 20% VAT to all of that, each product comes up usually more expensive than buying it in the UK, plus there's the hassle of dealing with the general incompetence of DHL (seriously, you wouldn't believe the agg I've had throughout the 15 years I've been forced to use them because of iHerb deliveries!)

    Ok. So I think I understand that ionic is a better, more bioavailable form than colloidal, due to size and different absorption rates/mechanisms, but I still don't understand about the difference in effect between fulvic acid and humic acid. Any thoughts?

    The Neways minerals I used to take, Maximol, came from the Great Salt Lake, which I read last night is now highly toxic. No idea if this is true. Can anyone shed any light on that for me, please?

    Has anyone here used any of these ionic mineral supplements? Did they help, or not? Were the concentrates any better than the big bottles of less concentrated versions? Did you find fulvic better than humic, or not?


    Any companies to look for /avoid?



    Any recommendations / warnings/ advice welcomed! :-D

    Thanks!

    J
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
  2. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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    @Jigsaw

    Seems reasonable enough to want the company to divulge exactly what is in the product and how much. The only way to get them to do so other than legislation is to use purchase power as in not purchasing. I know that doesn't help. Hopefully someone else has some knowledge of this product.

    I think here you might want to be a little more specific. What is it you are hoping to improve healthwise? You might want to ask: Did they take this product alone when they trialed it or were they taking other supplements at the same time when they saw improvement?
     
  3. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    /QUOTE]

    Open to any improvements in any symptoms, period. Feel free to take your pick from the multitude of health issues common in CFS - fatigue, poor cognition, joint and muscle pain, inappropriate immune response, poor temperature control, chemical sensitivities, defined allergies, migraines, headches, sinusitis, nerve pain and or neuropathy, IBS, the squits or birthing bottom-pebbles (or even worse constipation than that), depression, anxiety, poor circulation, muscle cramps, nausea, vomiting, skin eruptions, poor quality of sleep, insomnia, waking up exhausted, indigestion/ heartburn/ GERD, candida, athlete's foot, nail fungus, tinnitus, dry skin, oily skin, acne, restless legs, fibrocystic breast disease, hypo or hyper thyroidism, adrenal insufficiency, Lyme disease, dry eyes.....and any I haven't thought of.

    At this point, I'm not running a scientific experiment, and most people I've met on here so far will volunteer if they think any improvements are down to a particular product or somethimg else that's changed, like meds, or something in their environment/ lifestyle.


    Thanks. You'd think, wouldn't you?
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  4. Bansaw

    Bansaw Senior Member

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    I had a few Ionic minerals. I got mineral tested and I was found low in many minerals. I bought some ionic iron, but when taking it, it sky-rocketed my potassium levels to a scary level. My doctor was worried at the level of potassium.
    What I would say, is that if you take something, it might have a knock-on effect against another mineral. eg. iron, potassium, and zinc, copper etc. You've got to be careful.

    The way I increased my minerals was taking sole-water (celtic sea salt in water - cheap but effective for me) and I took it every day. The white spots on my nails went and look pretty good now. It takes a bit longer but its more natural imo.
     
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  5. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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    I certainly understand the desire to be rid of any of those symptoms.
    It may not be what you're thinking of but I believe that @JaimeS takes a form of colloidal silver. She may know more about ionic minerals.
     
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  6. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    That's interesting, thanks. I did ask in my OP if taking my sea-salt would do the job :)

    I know you're supposed to leave sole to sit for 8 hours or more before using it, with a teaspoon of the solution added to 8oz of water each time you take it - what makes it ionic, exactly? Is it the saturation of such a high volume of salt in relatively little water, or the time the salt is left in the water? Is sea-salt added to water and drunk immediately ionic, too?


    If you only add a teaspoon of sole each time to a glass of water, I suppose it would still be a stronger concentration than, say, 1/2 teaspoon of sea-salt in 8oz of water? I'd welcome your adviceo this.


    I've been taking salt water (Pink Himalayan, Waitrose Organic Sea-Salt) several times a day for about 5 weeks, as part of the iodine protocol.

    I've also got a box of Maldon sea-salt, which will be a lot easier to decant into a jar if it proves necessary to fill a jar with salt before adding water to make it into sole - my Pink Himalayan is in an enormous grinder, and it practically breaks my hand, wrist, and forearm every time I have to fill up the smallish pot that I keep my ground salt in. If I have to fill a whole jam-jar or bigger with my pink salt, I'm going to need a sling! I can't get the salt out any other way, the lid doesn't come off. It's grind it or just sit and admire the colour!


    Re: taking individual minerals - that must have been alarming for you, to have your K shoot so high.

    Did you have any K excess signs, like palpitations, a rash, weak floppy muscles, nausea, vomiting, upset bowels, anything like that? Did your doc check your levels?


    Potassium is one of the biggest minerals in the human body, and the RDA is quite high, compared to how measly and overly-conservative most RDAs are, at 4.7g/d. It's very abundant in foods.


    Interestingly, sodium and potassium have to be in balance. In theory, you could take a lot more potassium than the recommended max of 4.7g/d, and provided you were taking an equally large amount of sodium to balance it, you wouldn't show any signs of an excess of either. Broadly speaking, with substances that work in tandem, like salt and potassium, or oestrogen and progesterone, the body registers excess and deficiency only as relative states between the two things, not as actual quantities of each. You can have technically low oestrogen, but if your progesterone is even lower, you would then experience signs and symptoms of oestrogen dominance.


    I wasn't aware that iron caused elevated potassium, so thanks for that. I do know that when I was prescribed iron tablets after omeprazole had made me anaemic, the iron triggered my IBS and I was in agony. The dose I was given was, from memory, something like 40mg - way higher than any iron supplement I've ever used before, which are usually around 14-18mg, I think.


    I wasn't thinking of getting individual ionic minerals, I'm after a supplement that has all 80-odd minerals in it (or 60, whichever version of the <o.001 interpretation you believe when it comes to the nutritional analysis of the different salts).

    Thanks again for replying, I hope you can advise me further re: sole vs sea-salt in water and drunk immediately:)


    Did you keep yours at room temp, or in the fridge? You said "took"- have you stopped taking it?
     
  7. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    Thanks, and thanks for tagging :thumbsup:

    I've got colloidal silver, and honestly didn't find it did any of the things it's purported to do, which was disappointing :(

    Maybe @JaimeS can shed some light.

    Thanks again
     
  8. PatJ

    PatJ far and free I gaze

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    I tried Vitacost liquid trace minerals. For the first two days my body seemed to love it but then I started having kidney aches. Looking at the label I noticed that bromide was first on the long list of additional minerals (after the major minerals usually found on labels.) I think there was enough bromide in the liquid that it was being pushed right back out by the iodine I was taking and straining my kidneys. Once I stopped taking the trace minerals the kidney ache stopped within two days.

    Keep this in mind since you're taking high dose iodine.
     
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  9. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    Hi @PatJ,

    I've already got that covered! :)

    Already using the salt-loading protocol (the chloride wraps round the bomide and makes it easier to eliminate, protecting the kidneys as it does so.

    Have been through a fair bit of detox already so far. Pulsing takes the strain off if I feel it's getting too much. No kidney or flank pain so far, just weird smelling sweat and pee, some squits, headaches, zits, etc. Nothing too bad. I started v low deliberately, and have worked up.

    Not acceptable to have such comparitively high bromide lvels in a health supplement, surely?? :eek: Good job you spotted it!

    Think I'm probably going to stick with sole or ordinary salt-wate for my base mineral intake from now on, unless someone hugely recommends one of the commercial ionic mixes :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
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  10. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    Colloidal silver helped me out when my mouth was full of infectious gunk. Sorry to be so gross, but with a suppressed immune system coupled with heavy duty abx at the start of my illness, I had some 'surface infection' issues that were really tough to kick.

    I eventually did with the use of LOTS of colloidal silver for viral stuff, goldenseal for bacterial, and wild oregano for fungal. It took months to finally kick it; now it's rare for me to have that kind of issue, where before, it was pretty much all the time.

    I read the bottle, and did some calculations. For me to poison myself with the silver content, I would have had to drink multiple bottles every day for years. I read a few personal stories, too, of people who drank cupfuls of the stuff when they were sick, with no ill effects. None of that skin-turning-silver nonsense... when used for acute conditions, or used at several sips a day, long-term. I also sometimes swished-and-spat.

    Note: I was doing a lot of stuff to rebuild my immune system as well, e.g. Lactoferrin before bed with a CoQ10, and heavy-duty probiotics first thing in the morning and another around 2pm; however, when I removed the silver from my routine, issues got worse pretty swiftly. It did the thing.

    -J
     
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  11. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    Thanks, @JaimeS

    - Care to share re ionic vs colloidal vs fulvic acid multi mineral supplements?

    Thanks!

    J
     
  12. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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  13. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    @JaimeS
    ....To good effect, or not so much?

    Any reason why you use colloidal rather than ionic? My understanding is that colloidal forms comprise larger and less bioavailable molecules than the ionic form. Any thoughts?
     
  14. PatJ

    PatJ far and free I gaze

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    You might be interested in this document about colloidal silver.

    The general view on CureZone is that ionic is best for external use, and coilloidal for internal but I don't recall the reasons.
     
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  15. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    Thanks Pat.

    I'm really more concerned about broad spectrum ionic/colloidal minerals rather than individual ones, but thanks for the extra info about colloidal silver.

    I have used it before, didn't find it very effective, may revisit at some point, still have it in one of my supplement cupboards :)
     

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