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Iodine supplementation

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by newuser22, Jan 1, 2017.

  1. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    Selenium is the base for the 5'-deiodinase enzyme that converts T4 to T3, so that's interesting, because in theory selenium should INCREASE T3. I suppose that even if T3 levels are low, RT3 will still show up if not much/ none of that T3 is being picked up.

    Lowering T4 will obv lower T3 production, so that makes sense.


    Which fits in with iodine being a crucial part of the whole methylation nightmare, and I'm beginning to think it could be key as to preventing a lot of the horrible reactions we all seem to get after a few excellent weeks on MB12 supplementation, even with all relevant cofactors.



    ??? Huh??? I have no idea what that sentence means! Did autocorrect kick in? :confused:


    Soil composition is a HUGE part of our modern health problems. It's nutrient deficient and chemical-rich, as well as the things you've observed about our food-chain (and apparently, they replaced iodide with bromide in flour a few decades ago, which won't have helped, and may go some way towards explaining why a lot of people do better off wheat than on. They might not be gluten intolerant (I tested negative for celiac, but have problems eating bread etc) it might be the bromide affecting thyroid function via displacing the iodine.....

    Just thinking.....:nerd:
     
  2. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Sorry I was looking for the source to link here, but my brain closed down for today :bang-head:
    Did you get protease inhibitors? I suspect my gluten intolerance is due to protease inhibition.
     
  3. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    Nope, never. I've had problems with wheat an other grains (but not organic brown rice) my whole life,

    That sentence - it was the wording I didn't understand. Still don't!

    Off to sleep now, v early wake-up tomorrow (today, now). I'm not good at sleeping before about 1am at the earliest, but as my other half is getting up at 5am and always does my breakfast for me, I'll have to be awake then too.

    N'nite :sleep:
     
  4. South

    South Senior Member

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    @Jigsaw I don't have any knowledgable doctors here where I live for me to do any testing of adrenals. My symptom lists closely fit adrenal symptoms lists, and I've long suspected it.
     
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  5. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem All Good Things Must Come to an End

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    It was in a post that someone else made here and they did not give their source.
     
  6. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    Hi everyone,

    Have heard back from the company whose Lugol's Iodine Solution (2%) I bought. They say that theirs IS elemental iodine, so that's good.

    The Lugol's Chart that I was using for reference is correct. It doesn't include the potassium component of potassium iodide, only the iodide part itself, along with the (elemental) iodine.

    So at 2%, a single drop of my Lugol's is 1/20th of a ml, and contains APPROX 1mg (elemental) iodine, plus 3mg of potassium iodide.

    Potassium iodide is approx 75% iodide, so the iodide portion is roughly 2.5mg per single drop. Therefore, my 2% Lugol's is approximately 2.5mg of total iodine/iodide per drop.



    Been doing some research on bromide, bromines, other endocrine-disruptive halides.......Worrying stuff. :jaw-drop:


    The USA are STILL allowing bromine to be used in dough, so a lot of your commercial bakery products have bromide in, which will screw your thyroid up when the bromide displaces the iodine (also in other sites around the body, not limited to thyroid).


    This article by Mercola says bromide was banned in flours etc in the UK in 1990, and in Canada in 1994.


    (Maybe that's why bread was always more problematic for me before then and isn't always such a problem for me now. My childhood had a lot of white bread in it, evil stuff. My reaction to bread etc used to be so strong that I was checked for coeliac disease, where you are allergic to the wheat protein, gluten, but that wasn't the case with me.)

    Apparently, even Brazil banned it recently.


    Also found in plastics, fizzy pop (soda in the US, fizzy pop here in the UK), inside all cars (along with chlorine, another iodine-displacing halide - which begs a huge question about the safety of chlorine used in swimming pools for me - I mean, could swimming regularly at my local pool when I was a kid have been part of the cause of all my health problems? Or even a major cause? Why are professional swimmers and divers like Tom Daly seemingly unaffected? Or are they? Anyone got any prostate, thyroid and breast cancer stats for swimmers or divers? Or swimming coaches?)


    Bromide also in pesticides, some hot-tub water-cleaning treatments (I LOVE hot-tubs, but have only ever been in one probably less than 10 times in my entire life, so I don't think I can blame that - chance would be a fine thing!)



    Potassium bromate is used in some toothpastes and mouthwashes, as an antiseptic and astringent - you know how some mouthwashes make your mouth fill up with saliva several times after you've spat the mouthwash out? - When we were still using mouthwash (we stopped it about 5 years ago), we used to grade them as a "3-spit", a 4-spit", and one in particular was a "5-spit", because it would make both our mouths fill up with saliva repeatedly after we'd spat the mouthwash out, and we'd have to keep going back to the sink to spit the saliva out, too. I'm going to have to check to see if it was bromide that was causing that. I always thought that was the alcohol content. Maybe it wasn't, if bromide is used as an astringent in mouthwashes.



    Anyway, here's the article:

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...nother-poison-hiding-in-your-environment.aspx

    Still researching........
     
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  7. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    @South

    You're welcome to PM me if you could use some non-pharmaceutical guidance on how you can support your adrenals naturally. :)

    It's pretty difficult to get a hypoadrenalism dx even with good docs. At least, it is in the UK.

    Most of our GPs are at the mercy of whatever the specialist consultant says, because consultants are higher up the medical food chain.

    Consultants here are widely known (with one of two exceptions) to be arrogant and cold. Endocrinologists are amongst the worst of that breed, in my experience.

    The standard tests for low adrenal function, the ACTH test or the short synacthen test, are so powerful that to fail the test by your adrenals not responding would mean you were basically dead already.


    I don't understand why they can't do things clinically, and check for postural hypotension, feeling cold, no ability to withstand stress, weight loss, brown marks in skin creases, salt cravings, etc, etc, instead of relying on a test that is known to be a very insensitive marker.


    One Endo I saw, way back in the 1990's, before I went to work for a private doc who specialised in thyroid and adrenal problems, deemed my adrenals "normal", my thyroid "normal on thyroxine (T4)" without measuring my T3, and said my then very high cholesterol had "nothing whatsoever to do with this patient's thyroid function" .


    In actual fact, every medical or endocrinology book I've ever read ALL say that low thyroid CAUSES high cholesterol. Once my thyroid was treated with T3, my cholesterol came right down, within a couple of weeks.


    No connection, my backside! :smug:


    Anyway. PM me if you want some natural medicine options. I'd be happy to help :)
     
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  8. PatJ

    PatJ far and free I gaze

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    Another possibility is that some people find they need extra iron and B6 when taking higher doses of iodine, and then the extra fatigue resolves. I think I remember reading that this often starts to happen around 25mg/day.

    When I started taking iodine I would get kidney pain. Salt, and pulsing the iodine dose (taking every other day) helped.

    For weeks after starting iodine I developed large skin rashes on my forearms (left more than right). It was almost like a covering of hard, dead skin but with a coral-like structure to it (sort of porous.) It came off with a lot of dry brushing. This happened again when I increased the dose. Rashes are, apparently, one of signs of bromide etc. being expelled.

    I don't remember where I found this comment, but it might apply to you:
    "In defense of the 'go gluten free' thing, it's not really the gluten that helps some people feel better when they cut it out. By cutting out wheat flour, you severely reduce the amount of folic acid in your diet, which can resolve some of the problems having an MTHFR mutation causes symptomatically."

    Organic sourdough bread shouldn't have added folic acid. It might be worth a try to see if you can tolerate it.
     
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  9. jlynx

    jlynx Senior Member

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    @Jigsaw

    The breakouts are frustrating but I'm going to count it on some kind of detox or healing and wait it out. But there are a couple of natural supplements for hormone balancing that I want to try. I also have very oily skin which is a sign of high testosterone. My hormones tested fine before but that was a while ago.

    You're on 100 mcg a day of T3 a day? What form is it in- compounded? And does it help you? My doc only had me on a low dose of 30 mcg compounded SR and I wondered if a higher dose would have made more of a difference, or if it's because of the Iodine deficiency. Because my levels did even out to a correct ratio and then became messed up again (on the same dose.)

    I take J Crows 2% liquid Iodine. I am replacing it with this 5% version, just because it's cheaper.

    That makes sense, it's just frustrating after having an initial boost from it. But I have read that this is how it goes for a lot of people. Better, worse, than better again.

    I was impatient and didn't start the salt right away so that may be why I'm having some issues. The store only had crappy refined salt so I had to order it online. I use pretty pink Himalayan salt. :redface: Still getting used to the taste and finding tolerable ways of adding it to stuff. How would you say it's made a difference?

    That was a quote by Dr. Abraham in the Guide to Supplementing Iodine:

    Dr. Abraham has stated that it should take 6 months of 50 mgs to reach 90% saturation. However, as testing has become more widely available, it seems to be taking individuals years to detox halides and allow the iodine to enter the cells. Consequently, there is no set time that a person can expect to supplement and reach saturation levels.

    It's very encouraging stuff. Good idea for starting slow. I think I'm going to go ahead and go back to 50 mg/day, 100 mg might be too much for me. I'd rather deal with a more gentler detox if possible. After all, slow and steady wins the race! :)
     
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  10. PatJ

    PatJ far and free I gaze

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    There may be an exception to this depending on the reasons for taking iodine. I'm adding this here for anyone with Hashimoto's who encounters this thread. In Stephanie Buist's document she has an interesting section (page 10) on Hashimoto's and iodine (part c refers to going low and slow backfiring in this case):

     
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  11. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    Just so everyone knows:Iodine can compete with Lithium. Low lithium effects B12 transport, glutamate levels, sleep and can make one very depressed.

    I am using nascent Iodine mid day, then Lithium at night. Both are important.
     
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  12. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    Do you think that's why people on the B12 methylation protocol crash after a few weeks?
     
  13. PatJ

    PatJ far and free I gaze

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    How often does that happen? I didn't crash until nine months had passed, and even then I'm not sure if methylation had anything to do with it.

    I think some people 'crash' because their body starts fixing certain problems and runs out of needed nutrients. This is something that Freddd recognized as paradoxical folate insufficiency.

    @keenly
    Not everyone is so keen on nascent iodine. It's very expensive, and Stephanie Buist recommends using straight Lugol's because it has proven itself over many years of use. Can you list or link to some information that has convinced you that nascent iodine has proven benefits so we can learn more about it?
     
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  14. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    Really often! I understand Fredd's protocol, and about rate-limiting nutrients. All of those are in place, and still my response to MB12 is terrible. I reacted horribly to HB12, and AdB12 doesn't seem to do anything except produce a headache.

    I've had a couple of months off B12, but still taking companion nutrients, inc FMN because I don't tolerate riboflavin, and have been concentrating on getting the iodine going.

    I did brilliantly on transdermal MB12 patches, 1.2mg, though they had rubbish folic acid in, then less well and crashed. Miserable, because I had been abke to function almost like a normal person for a few weeks, and was enjoying being abe to DO things.

    Switched to MB12 injections, 1mg, crash continued. Still don't understand what went wrong, but another IRL friend experienced the same supressed immune system issues, plus increased adrenal stress on the methylation protocol.

    @keenly, @PatJ

    Nascent iodine has to be in alcohol or the diatomic bond isn't broken, and it's the broken bond that is claimed to give nascent iodine its extra electromagnetic charge, as advocated by Edgar Cayce.

    Apparently, "nascent" iodine in anything other than alcohol isn't the nascent form at all.

    Rules it out for me, because I am utterly alcohol intolerant.

    My IRL friend seems to be doing ok on it, but I'm sticking with Lugol's for now.


    I've managed to get up to 50mg the last two days :thumbsup: On my way to my target of 100mg, to get rid of the cysts in my one remaining natural boobie. I really don't want breast cancer again.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
  15. PatJ

    PatJ far and free I gaze

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    I've read that some breasts can be fibroid free within weeks for some women, months for others. A few find that iodine doesn't help, but that seems to be far less common. Magnesium oil massaged into the breast can also help to reduce fibroids according to one of the iodine doctors (magnesium oil can sting initially.)

    Also, here's a comment that I found in my health snippets file (source unknown):
    "Fibrocystic breast disease can usually be treated with therapeutic doses of Vitamin E, EPO, a diet high in fiber and avoidance of methyl xanthenes."

    I'm at 75mg/day iodine now (split into 2 doses). The body acne is almost cleared, I'm thinking more clearly, and sleep is still improved. I've had a couple of nights where I had an unusual taste in my mouth, but that's common at high doses and usually resolves.
     
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  16. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    @PatJ

    Thanks, Pat.

    That's useful to know.

    Guessing the magnesium oil works because it counteracts calcium, and it's the calcifications that are precursors to breast cancer.

    Not so convinced re high dose E plus EPO etc. I think they provide anti-inflammatory action, but that doesn't sort out the root cause. Just my opinion, not fact.

    Great that you're up to 75mg :thumbsup: Hopefully, I'm not far behind you now!
     
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  17. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    @jlynx

    Hi, sorry for delay in response, pls forgive.

    Yes, 100mcg T3/d, Liothyronine. It comes from whichever manufacturer my GP's dispensary use and costs several hundred pounds per pot of 28 tabs. When I was still only on the standard physiological 20mcg/d, it was available online for around £15 a pot, which I thought was expensive then, but the hundreds it costs now is just insane.

    By "compounded", do you mean made up by a pharmacist? I'm not sure there are any compounding pharmacies in the UK anymore. Although they call themselves pharmacies, they are really dispensaries, be ause all they do is take prescriptions in, order the products from wholesalers, and dispense tgem to the script-holder.

    Initially,T3 helped a lot. I went from having been largely bedridden for two years, freezing cold, no appetite but gaining weight, exhausted, extreme cognitive problems (once took me nearly ten minutes to work out what "The" meant at the start of a book I was trying to read, and I couldn't understand what people were saying on TV) to working for the private Dr who dx'd me, and working for myself as a nutritional consultant, too.

    Over time, as symptoms have worsened again, my GPs along the way have increased my dose. The cancer treatments created an even bigger need for T3, and or a bigger resistance to it, hence the supra-supraphysiological 100mcg dose now.

    How are you gettimg on with the iodine? --I'm at 52.5mg now (it was 50mg, but I've switched to Heiltropfen's 7% Lugol's @ 8.75mg per drop, so 5 drops is 43.75mg and 6 drops is 52.5mg. I was previously on 20 drops of their 2% Lugol's, which is 2.5mg per drop.

    In looking for a higher strength Lugol's, I've realised that pretty much everyone except Heiltropfen thinks you add both the percentage of iodine and the percentage of iodide together. Everyone's 15% Lugol's contains only c.7.62mg per drop, because they've counted the 5% iodine as well as the 10% pot iodide. I think this is wrong. What those people are sellmg is a 10% solution, as far as I can make out.

    On the other hand, I found one seller advertising a 15% solution which stated it was 15% iodine and 30% pot iodide - which I'm pretty sure makes it a 30% solution! I keep asking the seller to confirm the iodine and iodide quantities per drop in milligrams, and he just replies "15% iodine and 30% potassium iodide", and I'm not mathematically-minded enough to be able to work it out myself. You'd think a reputable seller would know, wouldn't you?

    Happy Easter,
    Jigs
     
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  18. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    @PatJ

    Just stumbled across this, about reacting to methylfolate. It made me humongously anxious, and actually precipitated one of the worst episodes of crippling anxiety and unprecedented suicidal depression I've ever experienced. I couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, couldn't, think, speak, drive, nothing. Lost about four stone in weight....Terrified and horrified unrelentingly.Altogether hideous. And definitely triggered by methylfolate.
    https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-methylfolate-anxiety/

    I got myself out of that, after about 6 months of being convinced I was going to be locked up by men in whitecoatd, with tryptophan andv5-HTP. I don't EVER want to find myself in that place again.

    The link goes to an explanation of several possible problems caused by methylating. I thought it was very illuminating. Some of it goes against the anti-glutathione hypothesis, but at first read it all sounds pretty sensible to me.
     
  19. PatJ

    PatJ far and free I gaze

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    That's interesting information (and what a terrible experience for you!). I've only experienced benefits from Methylfolate. L-carnitine fumarate though, can cause a lot of anxiety for me (and skyrocketing potassium demand, so I avoid it.) Freddd has warned that some people try LCF and react so strongly that they go into a kind of anxiety psychosis for a couple of days. The recommendation for starting LCF is to try the amount that sticks on the tip of a wet toothpick (to pick up the powder), or to use liquid carnitine for microdosing because it's so powerful for some people.

    Do you know if you have any genetic mutations related to methylfolate? Your reaction sounds extreme but a milder version is listed in Caledonia's SNP Interpretation Guide:
    Back to iodine: Yesterday I realized that I've had periods of negative thinking for the past several days. It's always shortly after taking my dose of iodine. Yesterday I tried 1/4 tsp of salt in water and it helped to reduce the negative thoughts. Irritability is listed as a detox side effect, so maybe negative thinking should be included as well.
     
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  20. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Senior Member

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    Hi @PatJ :)

    That's interesting about the anxiety and methylfolate.

    I think bromide detox does list "dark thoughts", "mood swings" and other temporary moody symptoms as part of the process. I know I'm having moody patches, in between the feeling generally chilled out and happy stuff. I would imagine it's in part down to the iodine starting to get hormones working properly again - I doubt all the many broken pathways will be repaired at the same rate, so you'll get hormone imbalances as part of the process of normalising everything.

    Also, iodine deficiency makes your oestrogen receptors much more sensitive to oestrogen (hence the cancer increase in iodine-deficient men and women) and alters the favourable balance between oestradiol, oestrone and oestriol, shifting it to mean too much oestradiol is floating about - again, this is one of the predisposing factors in many cancers.

    Presumably, that "excess" oestrogen has to be conjugated and expelled during iodine supplementation, and I suppose that might also explain some of the moodiness we experience while we're still working up to iodine sufficiency. The body does its best to protect us from excess oestradiol, being the main cancer-driving orstrogen, so it stores it safely away in fat cells. I think that it's possible that these stores get released during detox, they certainly get mobilised during weight loss.

    Carnitine - I used to take ALCAR. I read a paper recently that showed carnitine actively blocks peripheral tissue production and conversion of T4 and T3 - is it possible that the fumarate form compromises thyroid function, and that the lowered thyroid function is the cause of the anxiety? - without good thyroid function, no hormone is in balance with any of the others. Depression and anxiety are involved in every case of hypothyroidism I've ever seen, heard of, or read about.

    Does any of that help explain your negative thougts as a result of iodosupplementation?
     
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