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IntrinsiB12 by Metagenics seems to help!

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by CAcfs, Jan 17, 2012.

  1. CAcfs

    CAcfs Senior Member

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    I don't generally get good responses like this to just one pill, so when I do, I report it.

    This supplement is helping me. It has Intrinsic Factor, which is supposed to help B12 absorption, HydroxyB12, and folate. Got it on iherb.

    About 30 min after taking it, I get a burst of energy. Do you all have any idea how unsual that is for me?!?!?! Ha. And it is strange, because for something that goes through my GI, the time it takes to work is very quick. So I am puzzled by that. But I actually think to myself, "why am I up doing things? what did I take?" Then I remember it was that pill. So it's not like I am sitting around thinking about it, waiting for it to work. I had to think hard, both days, to remember what I had done differently.

    It is pricey, but I didn't see many other sources of Intrinsic Factor around. I haven't been taking any methyl B12 the last 5 days or so, because I ran out. So it's not like the Intrinsic Factor is helping any Methyl B12 get absorbed. Not taking other B vitamins before the surge in energy either.

    (Just as a side note, the other things I have reported on PR that make a noticable difference are Acai for actual physical energy (not cognitive, etc), and Tyrosine, which I no longer take)
     
  2. CAcfs

    CAcfs Senior Member

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    ps---I am vaguely remembering that this is part of Rich's protocol....however, I am taking 1 full pill. Didn't have to ease into it; I am not taking 1/4 of it. I did try simplified protocol years back, but didn't have any earth shattering results. I seem to do fine on the full pill.
     
  3. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, CAcfs.

    I'm glad this supplement is helping you.

    It's true that it was initially part of the Simplified Treatment Approach, but Metagenics changed its formulation without changing its name. It used to have folinic acid in it, and now it doesn't, and that's why I dropped it from the protocol. In addition, it does contain folic acid as well as cyanocobalamin, and I don't favor using them.

    I feel quite sure that Freddd will like this supplement even less :)-), since neither folic acid and cyanocobalamin work for him, and folic acid even sets him back.

    So it's very interesting that it's helping you! I can't explain it, but am glad that it's working.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  4. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    HI Rich,

    And I hope it continues to help CAcfs.
    So clearly, there are people who can have startup effects without having blocked methylation to begin with. Then their ability to methylate cycbl reduces dramatically and it appears to spread as most of their b12 deficiency cymptoms continue to deepen.

    A little history might be helpful. In the 1950s when b12 injections were very popular b12 injection was attacked by the AMA and physicians who did it merely becuse it made the patient feel better were threated with sanctions. They called the startup effect "placebo". It tended to run out with cyancbl pretty quickly which lead me to the "exhausted methylator" hypothesis rather than the AMA's placebo so don't do it credo. It acted like it was exhausting that which it needed to be converted, it gets progressively less and less and eventually it does very little to help. Then they said "only inject with certain test results once a month". Then the next chapter was "testing is not cost effective for screening".

    In the beginning I had a major startup response. Knowing that could occur to a lesser extent with Cyanocbl had me investigating it from the point of view of making the "placebo" more predictable and repeatable. At that point I had no idea how spectacularly achievable that was going to be.
     
  5. CAcfs

    CAcfs Senior Member

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    Thanks for the well wishes.

    I think it's the Intrinsic Factor that is helping primarily, not the other two in the supp. That is one of the reasons I found this whole thing interesting. It's interesting that neither of you jumped to that conclusion! (or talked about it, at least...) I figured it was assumed that Intrinsic Factor was the talking point. Or maybe it's the combination including the Cyano, with the Instrinsic Factor being the more crucial component. Prior to this, I was taking both Hydroxycobalamin and Methyl off and on, usually both in the same day. This supp seems better than those other two forms, so my guess is that it must be the Intrinsic Factor.

    I don't really see Intrinsic Factor talked about here, so who knows....maybe we should be talking about it, and not let the exact forms of the B's cloud the view. Just an idea. I definitely respect where both of you are coming from though, with the theories about B forms. I am just wondering if there is some kind of other "cofactor" that some of us need. We are all different (or more likely, can be split into like 10 diff groups), so people should take what helps me and consider it as something that helps *one* of us. If there are others, would be interested.
     
  6. zrbarnes

    zrbarnes

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    Has anyone tried B-12 Intrinsic Factor by Progressive Labs? If it is high quality, it might be a winner. Check out the ingredients:


    • 800 mcg Folate (as 5-MTHF)
    • 500 mcg B-12 (as methylcobalamin)
    • 20 mg Intrinsic Factor
    • 250 mg Porcine Stomach
    • 75 mg Porcine Duodenal Substance
    • 50 mg Porcine Pancreatic Enzyme Concentrate

    Maybe it could help those that are unable to eat foods because of the folic acid by helping break it down?
     
  7. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I had the same reaction to this supplement. But had to stop taking it after awhile because
    my brain forgot how to sleep. I had to increase my melatonin, theanine and 5htp to
    such a high dose that I didn't feel awake the next day. I used this combo to push myself
    during the last few days of moving last year tho. Luckily I didn't have to think at that point just clean.

    I did the same thing with adb12, mb12, p5p and tyrosine. The energy was great but I
    couldn't handle not sleeping.

    I'm a celiac so my digestion is hampered by gut damage so needing intrinsic factor makes sense
    to me. Digestive enzymes have never given me energy even tho they help break down my food.
    Thanks for bringing this up .. Tc .. X
     
  8. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi CAcfs,

    Intrinsic factor does only one thing, it's part of the active absorbtion system for b12 from the intestine and is generated in the stomach. As the acid breaks down the meat protein intrinsic factor picks it up for transport through the intestine wall. Without intrinsic factor absorbtion is limited to about 1% via passive absorbtion. So when you have a b12 startup effect from cyanocbl and intrinsic factor it is from intrinsic factor aiding in the active absorbtion of the cyanocbl at a higher level than you would have without it. Intrinsic factor is not invloved with either sublingual absorbtion or injection absorbtion.

    So what this says is that you have a "classical" b12 deficiency caused by actual lack of absorbtion. There can be a number of reasons for lack of intrinsic factor including an autoimmune reaction creating antibodies to it. There is a test for that. So from what I understand then your "diagnosis" would be "pernicious anemia" or in other words, intrinsic factor deficiency. "Pernicious anemia" strange as it seems isn't really about the macrocytic anemia that often results but rather is the lack of intrinsic factor. Obviously you have the ability to convert the cyanocbl to active forms or you would not have had the response. Now it is possible, if you took it with a meal containing liver or meat or shellfish that it also aided in the absorbtion of several mcg from those sources as well as the cyanocbl.

    This supp seems better than those other two forms, so my guess is that it must be the Intrinsic Factor.

    Intrinsic factor delivers the cobalamins directly into the active transport system, transcobalamin II (2). When cobalamin is aboard it becomes HTC2 (holotranscobalamin II). There is a test now for testing the saturation of that system. Sublingual and injection b12 bypasses that system to a large degree by providing hundreds to thousands of times more B12 than the capacity of the HTC2 and gets to the cells by diffusion.

    For some of the sticklers on defining these illnesses, it can't be CFS you have since having an intrinsic factor deficiency is a defining factor for b12 deficiency per se. On the other hand this is what I have been saying all along; that b12 deficiency for whatever reason including lack of intrinsic factor or vegetarianism produces the symptoms sets of ME, CFS, FMS and others depending upon the combination of which forms of b12 and whether CSF and/or body and whether folate is deficienct for any of multiple reasons and other secondary and tertiary deficiencies which define the exact character of the disease, with dozens or hundreds of variations.


    I don't really see Intrinsic Factor talked about here, so who knows....maybe we should be talking about it,


    The reason it isn't talked about here is becasue of the denial that CFS is caused by b12 deficiency


    and not let the exact forms of the B's cloud the view

    It doesn't. Intrinsic factor absorbs all varieties.
     
  9. CAcfs

    CAcfs Senior Member

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    Freddd,

    Thanks.

    Yes, I seem to fit that anemia picture. And according to bloodwork, I *AM* anemic, and my iron is normal. I think it must be B12 def which is causing lack of red blood cells.

    I also have peeling lips, called chelitis, which as I understand, is a B12 deficiency symptom. Ugh. I think I need to get back on the shots (been off a long time), or continue with this intrinsic factor.


    xchoc...,

    We seem a lot alike (tyrosine helps me too). I seem to have mild/moderate problems with gluten and do better when it's eliminated. Dunno if I have Celiac officially.

    So maybe it's the messed up stomach/GI that causes the lack of intrinsic factor. Who knows. And who knows if the autoimmunity component is the chicken or the egg (autoimmune causing lack of Intrinsic Factor and Celiac and other allergies). If anyone has practical suggestions (things I should do or take), please post. I am so tired that I basically don't research at all. I am basically fighting just to stay awake.
     
  10. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi CAcfs,

    Many of the symptoms can be either lack of mb12 and/or methylfolate. Interestingly, the autoimmune aspect of antibodies to intrinsic factor can develop from low b12, a real chicken and egg. It's like once one gets deficient, it's kill 'em off fast as changes occur that makes recovery in natural circumstances impossible.

    The fatigue is often a lack of adb12. What brand of methylb12 were you taking and how did you take it? It's possible the fatigue can be gone in a few weeks but capacity needs to be rebuilt carefully. Adb12 is the kickoff point, that and Metafolin again, and l-carnitine fumarate.

    maybe it's the messed up stomach/GI that causes the lack of intrinsic factor

    There are very specific causes for lack of intrinsic factor. The age related changes in the stomach is more usually lack of acid to start the process. A few months of mb12 and metafolin can heal the stomach and intestines pretty well. I would avoid all folic acid, folinic acid, things that irritate your stomach for the time being, those can change. Also avoid glutathione, NAC, other glutathione precursors and whey. After healing is well under way you will be able to tell quickly if those are a problem, right now it's difficult.

    That you had a lot of response to the cyanocbl with intrinsic factor indocates that you were either not absorbing the mb12 for some reason, ie wrong brand, wrong method or something blocking it's action such as paradoxical folate deficiency or glutathione. What were you doing with mb12?

    I'd bet you can mostly recovered in a year if you do it right. Good luck.
     
  11. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    Hi. I am interested in the effects you noted from tyrosine? I was told my Life Extension that this could help me with - I forget which issues -- something to do with adrenal/allergy/restoring dopamine (they are interconnected). I have never tried it. So far I just eat cheese when I have an adrenal issue due to allergies. I recover promptly when the allergen is gone, but never before.

    So just wondered what I should look for to know if tyrosine would be doing anything for me?
    Thanx
    Rydra
     

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