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Intestinal Parasites and B12

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by slayadragon, Mar 14, 2012.

  1. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

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    The way this is supposed to work is that your draft post should re-appear when you return to view the thread where you were posting it - see explanation on this thread:

    http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=270236

    However, if you were posting the long post on this thread, that would suggest that it has been lost; maybe replaced by the post you just made. :( If so, I'm sorry that's happened to you, it is really annoying and a common problem I'm afraid. Occasionally I find I can re-discover a lost post by using the back button in my browser, so that's worth a try.

    I always copy anything I write here before submitting it, just in case. The sequence of Ctrl-Home, Ctrl-Shift-End, Ctrl-C is so automatic now I don't even think about it. The other tip that will probably help you avoid this is to tick the 'Remember me' tickbox every time you log in. That stops you from being logged out after a period of inactivity such as when composing a long post - which is what happened to you here.

    Very sorry if you've lost your post. When we migrate, we will have better guidance in place for members and hopefully some measures to reduce the chance of this sort of thing happening.
  2. treefrog

    treefrog

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    Thanks. I guess it's gone for good... Typical mercury retrograde stuff if you believe in that. I'll try to repost the info.
    madietodd likes this.
  3. treefrog

    treefrog

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    I read that the manufacturer has a shortage of Alinia due to some manufacturing issue. You may try a search of the generic name - nitazoxanide ? Magic Pharma in Mexico is pretty good & you may not need a prescription.

    Alinia is generally used for babesia with Lyme treatment. Some people think babesia may be the "real" cause of Fibro or CFS but I don't know. I don't seem to have the "traditional" symptoms of babesia so I didn't treat it. They also use malarone & other antibiotics. The tests are unreliable.

    ---

    Please read up on the Babushka principle for treatment of parasites, etc. - http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/101357#000000

    excerpt-

    Order of treament following the Babuschka Principle:

    Human being - then parasites - then metals - then fungi - then bacteria - then viruses ---

    Grandmother Babuschka holds all others when stacked together. You all have seen those stacked dolls somewhere before. Here is the Human, next to it the Parasite actually living in the human;
    followed by the Fungi living in the Parasite, etc. etc.

    Parasite is holding on to toxic metals.
    Metals are causing fungi growth.
    Bacteria are the smallest

    All live within each other.

    If patient is weak, supplement what is needed first.

    Start treating KPU in the beginning, when that is positive, because the microorganisms feed off vitamins, minerals and trace minerals, and KPU facilitates everthing else.

    This is the order of treatment recommended by Dr.K. with only slight variations.

    I received this from my friend, one of the best Klinghardt practitioners in Germany after they just finished their three-day seminar with Dr. K.
    I was always aware of this, but this illustrates it best.

    Detoxing of metal, i.e. lightening the burden, starts early. Once I started to deal with toxic metals, teeth, etc., parasites started to appear and the rest followed as above. All fits exactly the pattern I went through to arrive at well.

    ART (Autonomic Response Testing) signals this exactly. I find the same thing when testing with tensor. Detoxing metals was followed by parasites, etc. etc.
  4. treefrog

    treefrog

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    Killing parasites is probably a life long process. The eggs are very small & can be anywhere - fruit, veggies, meat, fish, in the ground, pets, etc. It may be a good idea to do an anti-parasite protocol once or twice a year...?

    Watercress is a typical place for flukes - so, be aware...
  5. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

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    When you are typing a post, it is auto-saved as you type (I think every 60 seconds or so). If you lose a post like this, log back in, hit the reply button on a post. In the bottom left side of where you type your post, you will see "Restore Auto-Saved Content", click on this and the post you have lost will reappear.

    This should work. Tonight I was answering a PM and my computer froze and crashed. While I was running the repair software, I went and logged into Phoenix Rising on our desktop computer and I was able to finish my PM (this was 45 minutes later). This will only work if you haven't replied to another post in the mean time.

    Kina.
  6. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    slayadragon: you sound like a toxic waste dump! I think I have all this to look forward to. I know I am highly toxic....
    I was curious. Do you do your own colonics? Colonics are kind of a 2 edged sword aren't they? But probably a necessary evil... when you need stuff to keep moving thru.
    I assume the low acid & slow motility in the gut predispose us all to parasites...
  7. topaz

    topaz Senior Member

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    What a minefield! Gut bacteria = good bacteria and bad bacteria. We know this drill -decrease bad and increase the good.

    Now to balance parasite eradication against helminthic therapy! (I just read a post here on PR about helminthic therapy and have broadly googled it, but not in depth and there appears to be some evidence for its use in autoimmune disease and depression). I have worried about parasitic infection (despite tests coming up negative) and am keen to start on some nonprescription therapy as a starter. I will go back and re-read this and other threads. Having said that, helminthic therapy does have some supporters but its a bridge too far for me at this stage.

    Just throwing this into the discussion.

    Best
    Topaz
  8. topaz

    topaz Senior Member

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    ......and bad bacteria/gut flora.
  9. slayadragon

    slayadragon Senior Member

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    twitpic.com/photos/SlayaDragon

    The amazing thing is that for the first 13 years of my illness, I had no idea that my body was toxic at all. The problem was so bad that my body kept what was already inside tightly sequestered, as I just kept getting sicker and sicker. It's only since I've been in absurdly clear places where my body has felt free to release stuff that I've realized just how toxic it actually is. So my suspicion is that I'm not unusual at all -- that everyone with CFS is equally toxic, and they just don't know it.

    I have known for a while that parasites were an issue for me. I just didn't realize quite how large this one could be. And the color has been a surprise too. But from everything I keep reading, beef and fish tapeworms cause few symptoms. Very strange.

    I just have been doing enemas, a full bag, but several of them a day over these past two weeks. They don't get all the way into the colon, but I don't think that matters for this purpose. I went for a colonic yesterday and it didn't seem much different -- it doesn't get into the small intestine either. The abdominal massage that the colonics therapist (who also is a massage therapist) gave me was helpful though.

    Low acid and slow motility would predispose to parasites, and probably some component of the immune system that's not working helps to take care of them before they get established. But there's something about toxins specifically that makes them very happy. Every time I've done really effective fast detox, this one has grown like crazy. I wonder what it is that the toxins do for them. (In the past, I thought it was just stray worms and that my using parasite herbs had killed them. I didn't realize that these things could hook on and last 20-30 years!)
    SickOfSickness likes this.
  10. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Bulk Organic Olive Leaves - Homeopathy for Parasites ?

    When I checked on the link from this discussion, I noticed it did not take me to a place that offered 1 lb. for $15. I did a little searching this morning, and found this website which offers a pound of organic olive leaves for about the same price. It actually looks like a great site to order any number of products, so I'm adding this link to my favorites on my browser.

    Starwest Botanicals

    Lisa, I was wondering if you've looked into or experimented with homeopathic remedies for parasites. I did a quick search, and noticed there are a number of remedies being recommended for various kinds of parasitic infections. -- Thanks.

    Wayne
  11. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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  12. slayadragon

    slayadragon Senior Member

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    I'm interested in homeopathic remedies for parasites, but I've not tried any.

    Things that I have tried: mimosa pudica, artemisinin, Rizols, Paranil, garlic, oregano oil, pau d'arco. I think they've all been somewhat helpful in weakening the parasites, though obviously they weren't enough for this particularly problematic one on their own.

    Someone told me that she thought that this herbal combination (designed for pets) was really helpful for her own parasite problems, so I ordered some of it and may try it:

    http://www.purrsnwags.com/products/wormex.html
  13. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    yeah. i totally agree..some of us, if not all, are loaded, loaded with toxins.
  14. treefrog

    treefrog

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    Re: I think they've all been somewhat helpful in weakening the parasites, though obviously they weren't enough for this particularly problematic one on their own.

    Why not try the drugs?
  15. slayadragon

    slayadragon Senior Member

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    Per my first post on this thread, that's what I eventually did: use a drug, which did indeed kill the parasite. Now I'm still in the process of expelling it.

    What perhaps I should note here is just how acrid the toxin associated with this parasite feels. I previously assumed that the trichothocene (Stachybotrys mold poisons) were primarily responsible for tearing up the gut lining, since there is literature to support that. But the toxins associated with this parasite seem likely to be equally bad for the gut, in their own way. And of course, tapeworms live in the small intestine, which is where our gut problems tend to be particularly bad.

    So I now tend to think that addressing parasites is a key component of improving gut health. Though whether people can do it effectively is another question!

    Best, Lisa
  16. treefrog

    treefrog

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    Yes, they are really toxic! You need binders... charcoal, psylium, chlorella, etc. Dr Schulze's #2 Intestinal Cleanse is good. It's not just tapeworms, either. Some other species reproduce in the small intestine. I think it's also a place for mercury accumulation.

    I heard clove powder is good for killing the eggs.
  17. slayadragon

    slayadragon Senior Member

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    Here is a review article on fish tapeworms.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2620636/?tool=pubmed

    Adult tapeworms lie folded in loops of the small intestine of their vertebrate host. Attachment to the intestinal wall usually takes place at the level of the ileum and less commonly in the jejunum or other levels. Rarely, the worms attach in a bile duct (101). Despite the large size of most Diphyllobothrium species and, thus, their mechanical effect on the host, many infections with this parasite are reported to be asymptomatic (70, 101). In about one out of five infections, diarrhea, abdominal pain, or discomfort occurs; other symptoms of diphyllobothriosis may include fatigue, constipation, or pernicious anemia (60, 160) and, sometimes, headache and allergic reactions. Less commonly, massive infections may result in intestinal obstruction, and migrating segments can cause cholecystitis or cholangitis. Other symptoms including pain in the tongue at eating have been associated to diphyllobothriasis.

    Prolonged or heavy D. latum infection may cause megaloblastic anemia due to a parasite-mediated dissociation of the vitamin B12-intrinsic factor complex within the gut lumen, making B12 unavailable to the host (162). Approximately 80% of the B12 intake is absorbed by the worm, with a differential absorption rate of 100:1 in relation to the absorption by the host. About 40% of D. latum-infected individuals may show low B12 levels, but only 2% or less develop clinical anemia, which is hyperchromic and macrocytic and may be associated with low platelets or low white blood cell counts. Severity of the disease is known to be directly associated with worm burden and by-products produced by tapeworms (60). This deficiency may produce damage to the nervous system, including peripheral neuropathy or central nervous system degenerative lesions. Diphyllobothrium-associated pernicious anemia is rarely reported nowadays (43), and anemia is also rare or nonexistent in the small D. pacificum tapeworm. After successful treatment, B12 levels come back to normal ranges in a period of several months.
  18. treefrog

    treefrog

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    Thanks! & that's just one kind of parasite... How about all the others?

    I don't think I had a tapeworm but I did see some other things... I'm not exactly sure what they were. It's hard to tell since they can be in different life stages & not look like a typical worm. Could be flukes, roundworms, filarial worms - malaria & babesia are parasites, too. I had no clue that I had them until I did a liver cleanse. They really can be asymptomatic.
  19. determined

    determined Senior Member

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  20. slayadragon

    slayadragon Senior Member

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    On the other hand, this article says that parasites may help to protect fish from heavy metals.

    http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070625/full/news070625-1.html

    >Parasitic worms inside the guts of sharks are absorbing high concentrations of toxic heavy metals, researchers have found. The worms could be useful to scientists trying to check up on the health of ocean waters. And they could be saving the sharks from metal poisoning at least for now.

    >The tapeworms had 278 to 455 times higher metal concentrations than the sharks themselves, the researchers report in Parasitology1. "This is very exciting because we have effectively found filter feeders in the open water," says MacKenzie.

    >The result mimics those of previous studies, which found parasites in freshwater fish were accumulating heavy metals2,3.

    >Together, such studies leave researchers thinking that these intestinal creatures are protecting their hosts. "If the heavy-metal concentrations found in the parasites were found in the shark tissues instead, I have little doubt that the sharks' health would be poorer," says Malek, although she doesn't know whether this level of pollution would make the sharks ill.


    Could it be that parasites actually have a protective function in CFS sufferers' bodies as well?

    They certainly do grow fast during periods of detox, at least in my experience. I wondered why that would be.

    Certain researchers are using hookworms as therapy for Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis and celiac disease. Could the idea that these worms mop up toxicity be related to this?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy

    I still don't think that having a really large tapeworm in the gut is a functional solution, but this seems to be more complex than one might think.

    It seems a more important question to consider than one might think as well.

    Thoughts?

    Thanks, Lisa

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