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Interpret this...can it help us?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by AdamS, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. AdamS

    AdamS Senior Member

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    I was looking at the following study: Gene expression alterations at baseline and following moderate exercise in patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and Fibromyalgia Syndrome

    The following graph stood out:

    [​IMG]

    To me, the amplification of gene expression that occurs as ME/CFS severity increases is intriguing.

    My question is...what is your interpretation of this graph and do you think it offers any insight that may help us understand/treat PEM more effectively?

    Full paper: http://emerge.org.au/wp-content/upl...rnal-of-internal-medicine-2012-2711-64-81.pdf

    Simplified: https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2...yndrome-subset-if-doctors-will-just-look-for/

    Thanks, Adam
     
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  2. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    This paper has been extensively discussed here before. Its not new. The Lights are still working on these issues, and we are hopeful they will make even more discoveries.
     
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  3. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    the worse one becomes the more impact exercise gets
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
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  4. AdamS

    AdamS Senior Member

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    Yeah this seems like a pretty big discovery to me. It might not be new, but how does it link to the new stuff? I guess the real question is how actionable insights like this are...E.g Could we reduce the elevated expressions theraputically to bring them closer to control levels and thus reduce PEM?
     
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  5. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I am reasonably sure there will be a connection with many of the new findings, but we need even more research.

    We can already modify PEM by pacing and using a heart rate monitor. Some have reported other successes, such as with high dose CoQ10 at the start of a crash. I am sure there are even more options.

    What we lack is a comprehensive model of what is going on. Even with that we really need clinical trials to find out what unforeseen affects there are. That does not mean we cannot try things, but it must be clear that when we do that its really experimental. Now I experiment on my health a lot, so I am not knocking that, but we do need to be cautious.

    As for specific pathways etc. I would have to reread all the relevant papers before I would even want to comment. Its worth noting the Lights have found two distinct responses, and so have Hornig et. al. I wonder if those two match up? Cross comparison of findings on the same patient group would help us a lot.

    We also do not know if the Lights' findings are a primary cause of PEM, or secondary to PEM, or a combination of the two.
     
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  6. AdamS

    AdamS Senior Member

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    Interesting how ADB1, the beta-1 adrenergic receptor is heavily overexpressed in the two most severe groups following exertion. Perhaps this is why some POTS/ME patients have success with the beta blocker propranolol. I remember reading somewhere that in POTS there is also evidence of an autoantibody to this receptor which has an agonist effect.

    I guess the over expression of these explains some of the symptoms PWME feel after exertion:

    E.g
    • ADB1 & ADB2 overexpressed (could theoretically) = tachycardia
    I see what you mean though now @alex3619 this only gives us one part of the puzzle, it explains some of the symptoms (like pain and heart rate fluctuations) but trying to compensate for all these raised expressions with different drugs wouldn't fixing the underlying problem.

    I'm super excited to see how all of this research progresses, I hope we find out the key sooner rather than later, it's fascinating stuff.
     
  7. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    What I want to see is how the Light's findings, the metabolomics findings, and the new cytokine findings, compare on the same cohort.
     
  8. AdamS

    AdamS Senior Member

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    Do you have a link to the new Cytokine findings? Agreed, comparing on same cohort would be good.
     

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