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Interesting result that matches my mothers symptoms

Discussion in 'Genetic Testing and SNPs' started by drob31, Dec 30, 2014.

  1. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    My mom has had fatigue issues her whole life and at one point was told she had fatty liver. She never told me this. The other day I ran a nutrahacker report on her 23andme data, and the following popped up. When I asked her about it, she admitted she had fatty liver:

    Folate One-Carbon
    Metabolism /
    Methylation (FOCM)
    rs7946 PEMT C TT: 2/2 16.8872% Converts
    phosphatidylethanolamine to
    phosphatidylcholine
    Fatty liver due to low choline Phosphatidylcholine
     
  2. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    This popped up on mine too, I'm TT as well. My liver appears to be in excellent health however.
     
  3. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    All her markers are perfect... AST, ALT, bilrubin. She had to get a ct scan and there was a spot.
     
  4. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I reversed my fatty liver just by going gluten free. Cholesterol and triglicerids improved as well (lower inflammation).
     
  5. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    It's interesting that the symptoms of fatty liver mirror adrenal fatigue. It also causes high cortisol, and even low cortisol.

    It also mimics CFS a little bit, but it could be a co-morbid factor for CFS.

    @halcyon have you ever had a liver biopsy or CT scan done? Fatty liver causes high cortisol.
     
  6. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    Yes I had an abdominal CT scan done earlier this year with no abnormal findings on the liver. I do have elevated bilirubin on occasion but apparently that's inversely correlated with NAFLD.
     
  7. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

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    This is a very common snp, I am also TT. Prevalence rates for homozygous TT range from around 13% in Asians to
    56% in Europeans.
    The following study says that those with fatty liver do have this snp more often than not, but those who have this snp are not more likely to have fatty liver than those who don't. There is some loss of function from the missense mutation but by itself it is not a cause of fatty liver.
    http://www.fasebj.org/content/20/12/2181.full.pdf
     
    Valentijn, Helen and Gondwanaland like this.
  8. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    Thanks for the post. I guess I was looking at the overall prevalence that nutrahacker has which is around 16% (genotype frequency).

    I noticed another gene which may compound the problem, and cause a reduction in choline levels. So maybe it takes a combination:

    Folate One-Carbon
    Metabolism /
    Methylation (FOCM)
    rs2236225 MTHFD1 G AA: 2/2 13.0933% Three distinct enzymatic activities
    related to folate
    Increased requirement for choline Choline

    In any case I would still say fatty liver could mirror allot of the symptoms of adrenal fatigue / CFS, even without a genetic way to determine it.
     
  9. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

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    Unfortunately Nutrahacker copies information from various sources without checking whether it is accurate. Please can I encourage you to research further any information you get from Nutrahacker. Some of it is right, some is partly right and some of it is completely wrong.

    rs2236225 is snp on the folate pathway. I am heterozygous for that one. It only impacts choline indirectly by having an influence on the conversion of Homocysteine to Methionine, so would only be relevant to choline when PEMT is not working properly. The answer to the MTHFD1 snp surely would be adequate folate for the cycle to run properly rather than adding choline.

    Some snps do have an effect on the requirement for dietary choline, but studies say it is neither of those ones listed above.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16816108
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19167960?dopt=Abstract

    On the other hand in those who are obese (a factor contributing to fatty liver) those snps are shown to be relevant and betaine or choline supplementation is considered a possibility to explore. It may even be that these snps contribute to obesity.
    http://www.nature.com/nutd/journal/v2/n10/full/nutd201223a.html

    Like Celiac disease where 40% of people carry the genes which predispose to an illness which only around 1% of people get, non-alcoholic fatty liver may require certain predisposing genes as well as exposure to another factor (like, for one example, a high fat diet) in order to get the illness. I would not say someone with these snps has an increased need for choline anymore than I would say the 40% of people carrying celiac predisposing genes need to avoid gluten.

    It is still interesting and worth following up, sorry I just have difficulty with Nutrahacker's inaccuracies.
     
  10. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Very interesting. Please apologize for my poor elaboration - my brain is in slow motion today.
    There is a lot of "disagreement" between my husband and I in regard to this gene. Also for this particular SNP:
    MTHFD1 rs2236225 A or G (I am GG and DH is AA).

    As you said, the genotype will only predict a condition and the epigenetics (eg diet) will materialize the fatty liver disease.

    IME a high carb diet (and the use of refined oils) was the underlying cause for my fatty liver. When I went gluten free and switched from refined oils to natural fat (lard, coconut oil) my liver was completely clear in a few months, to the astonishment to the doctor who was performing the ultra sound.
     
    Sea likes this.
  11. svetoslav80

    svetoslav80 Senior Member

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    Quite a lot people have fatty liver without symptoms. It's also reversible condition if one changes diet. I'd rather assume that your mum fatigue symptoms are caused by something else, rather than her fatty liver.
     
    Gondwanaland likes this.
  12. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

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    Yes, there is more than one cause for fatty liver. Also there is no one size fits all diet. Some doctors are becoming aware of this, but others are still shocked when an unexpected result happens. My husband read about switching from refined oils and high carb to natural fat and lower carb. Since changing the way we cook he has lost 8kg in 6 months, while sadly I have gained. Whether genetics play a role in that I don't know but I suspect it does.
     
  13. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I frequently read in lowcarb forums that women usually have more difficulties with the diet. I think it's the estrogen :bang-head:
    I lost lots of weight though - alas too much :meh: But am slowly recovering, but will never go back to refined oils, they are too inflammatory.
     
    Sea likes this.
  14. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Help? I looked up a couple of websites and am still confused about what is a refined oil. In my house I have coconut, sweet almond, grapeseed, and (not my fav:) olive.
     
  15. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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  16. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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  17. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    So looking at labels, the olive and coconut are good, the sweet almond and grape seed are suspect.
     
  18. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Thank you. I wasn't impressed with this guy. Seems to change his mind quite a bit, and not for a supported or consistent reason. He says:
    So, if you find it, like I did, at Trader Joe's for $3.69 for a good size bottle (17 oz) and don't use it for deep frying or high heat sauteeing, is there really a reason to dis it? I could point to the 70% PUFA, but it's not from hydrogenation processing, and Mark Sisson didn't comment on it. I like it because it doesn't go bad while I'm traveling for work, the way others do.

    He didn't comment on Sweet Almond, that another site said was good (unrefined).

    So, I guess I don't know if I have a sensitivity to refined oil, since I don't apparently have any in the house. I'm stopping
     
  19. Valentijn

    Valentijn The Diabolic Logic

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    Nutrahacker is not a reliable source. Basically they cut and paste stuff from the internet, without understanding it. I haven't seen any indications that they actually read the research regarding the SNPs which they report upon.

    Some of their report data was plagiarized word-for-word from my own posts on this forum, though they did remove it when a Phoenix Rising moderator contacted them.
     
    taniaaust1 likes this.

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