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Interesting post on increased methylation in study models

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Martial, Mar 25, 2014.

  1. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Ventura, CA
    Little Bluestem and Helen like this.
  2. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Ventura, CA
    Little Bluestem and Helen like this.
  3. Wendi C

    Wendi C

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    Super interesting, Martial! Thanks for sharing.. I previously reported awful symptoms from methylation so I had to stop.. I literally feel like a new being and SO much better. I can't tell you how good I feel in comparison.

    I read Dr. Ben saying that those not feeling good while taking 5-Mthf might have a build up of peroxynitrite (sp?) and that's exactly what could go wrong in the NO/ONOO cycle. Maybe that is what happened to me?

    I have an appt soon with my MD who started me on methylation. I'm going to ask him to do try a trial run of oscillating between HydroxyB12 and folinic acid/5-Mthf and MB12.. Someone else on this board was going to try that and I messaged them but didn't hear back. Maybe they are doing SO well they don't have no need to be on here anymore! :woot:
  4. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    @Wendi C

    Yes, I think Dr. Ben mentioned that increased methylation without proper balancing can lead to elevated methionine, and subsequent SAM levels. Especially those prone to not properly converting vitamin b6 which is necessary for proper conversion into taurine, cysteine, sulfate, and glutathione.
    He mentioned supplementing P5P, and Magnesium to protect against neuronal damage, alongside niacin for soaking up excess methyl groups from methyl folate.


    this is all interesting stuff to read about and makes sense, if one of the essential co factors is deficient then where does the excess production go? I guess in the study cited it is suggested that the effects of methylation can turn neuronal toxic at high enough doses without proper co vitamin dependencies like b6, choline, magnesium, etc..


    Ahh it all just makes me head hurt though and feels conflicting, I just wish I could use a simple protocol and stick to it without having to do so much research and watching out for so many side effects and the like... :bang-head:

    I really wonder what Fred's take is on this. I found his protocol to be the most efficient but even then if someone is having issues like excess methionine production without proper carrier vitamins for conversion this can be a problem. At least until everything is balanced and equilibrium is established.

    I guess it is pretty essential for anyone using any type of methylation protocol to get tested and find what possible mutations they may be dealing with. We all can't just supplement the same things like supplemental SAM E and expect the same results, like someone may severly low in methionine and this would help to get nutrients into cells, but for those with excessive methionine this could become toxic.

    I feel as if Fred's protocol is very potent and the essential co factors are necessary for proper methylation, these seemingly already being in harmony and not necessary to decide to use folic, folinic, or whatever synthetic form over bio active Folate, as well as Methyl b12, and Adeno b12 already being set as perfect harmonizers. It seems the issue is more related to the other range of b vitamins, magnesium, calcium, and other potential methyl donors found through diet or supplementation. There are also no toxic ranges of the nutrients in the protocol, however it seems we do have to be aware of other potential issues like depleted necessary co factors enzymes, vitamins, minerals, etc.. Definitely confirming our own genetic testing results for a better indication of what may be better for each individual.
  5. Wendi C

    Wendi C

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    @Martial - My head hurts as well and I can literally feel your frustration as I read! I thought I'd be a slam dunk for Freddd's protocol, too. I consider myself at around 60% functioning these days and serum folate has always been high, but something's obviously missing from the puzzle. If my doc can't help me with the whole picture I'm going to have to seek out someone else. He's got a really good history on me. Has run adrenal, neuros, OATs. The signs all point to methylation but... What's missing? I've always been low in Mag and B6 (and most other B's but not B12). I don't want to be doing more damage than I already have.. :aghhh:

    There's a woman in Boulder, CO., a Dr. Carnahan, that seems to have a good knowledge about the mutations. I may have to seek out her help and she's only a 9-10 hour drive and several paychecks, so we'll see.

    Ah, shoot.. Off to the sauna for me. Too much to think about..
  6. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Haha I understand Wendi! Lol, One thing to be sure of is covering more then methylation alone if there is underlying issues of pathogens. I had responded very well to methylation treatment but its not going to cure my lyme disease. I had to get on a protocol by Buhner specific to curing Lyme to do so, so far it is working quite well though :D.. Also for other people they may have mycotoxins built up or other bio toxins and may need Dr. Shoe Makers CIRS protocol, for others there may be yeast/candida issues, parasites to clear out, undiagnosed celiac disease, sometimes even hard to find cancers. I was speaking to a women recently who had found out she had adrenal tumors but for years the only thing that showed up in tests were slightly abnormal blood tests, she had IBS, Dry Itchy eyes, skyrocketed insulin resistance, all kinds of hormone issues, and a bunch of other wide range non specific symptoms and was diagnosed as CFS for sometime I believe... She eventually got proper testing and they did a screening to find the cancer though, thankfully through a compassionate and good listening doctor of hers. Other people could have CVID, amalgam illness (excessive mercury, and heavy metals), connective tissue disorders like EDS, mast cell activation disorder, and some others may have Lyme disease like me, among the many other possibilities.

    Also it was such a pain in the ass to get proper testing myself, I came back negative for an Elisa test, and Western blot by CDC standards, sent blood work to IgeneX and even the main test came back negative, though with cross panel elevated ana factor of lyme, just not enough +++'s to make a CDC standard positive from the lab. My doctor said this is because my body is using so much of the antibodies in the infection because I never received proper treatment before, that it did not have enough time to create ample antibodies.. Like being in war and your gun is out of bullets (antibodies) but in times of peace, (controlled lyme) your gun is full again. A blood smear is far more accurate because it looks for spirochetes instead, just super expensive! lol

    A great test to see for possible pathogens is getting a CRP test, if you have elevated CRP levels this would show your body is producing some degree of cytokine, immune, or other forms of internal inflammation and would indicate a possible infection or overburdened load of bio toxins.

    Hope that all helps and enjoy the Sauna! The best thing to do for healing is to turn the mind off for a while and just be fully present! :)

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