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"Integrative medicine: one of the most colossal deceptions in healthcare today" (by Edzard Ernst)

Kati

Patient in training
Messages
5,497
Here is what I think.

Medicine is based on science, notably clinical trials and scientific method is guiding treatment protocols for most medical conditions out there (except of course ME and a few other stigmatized conditions)

So you have stage 3 large B-Cell Lymphoma? There is a protocol for that. There are guidelines. You have just been diagnosed with HIV type 1? There are treatment guidelines for that. And so on. This is medicine. It's a big book of protocols and procedures which is being updated from year to year thanks to government-funded research and clinical trials.

Nowhere in 'the book' there is a concept of 'adrenal fatigue'. Or chelation. Or coffee enema. Or liver cleanse. These have been brought on by alternative medicine practitionners, without much scientific proof. No physician in their right mind would perform a hair analysis or live blood analysis for that matter.

Now with ME the governments have failed to fund the disease. So the evidence and treatment protocols are pretty much inexistent. Heck, we can't agree on which case definition and whether Lyme disease is a separate entity or a co-existing infection. The book says we need CBT and GET. We all know it's wrong. People like @Tom Kindlon and a few others have been very outspoken in addressing serious concerns of methodology of the fraudulent science in this regard and I am absolutely grateful for that. We are fighting the very people who are blocking and delaying science.

In my views, integrative medicine is basically 'soft medicine'- focusing on nutrition and basic body function and a whole lot of theories. If people want to do that for themselves, fine. However as a patient group, what is needed is science and mainstreaming the disease so we can have access to what science can offer, the best available treatments possible for our condition. Integrative medicine should be 'complimentary medicine' not the only thing that's available for us.

Years ago, I was told by a supposedly very capable physician that there would be no testing available for me but I could enter a CBT program to learn about my illness, that I should learn how to meditate and I should also see a naturopath. I was totally offended. If I presented with cancer and was told the same thing by an oncologist, that oncologist would have been fired. While there are no approved treatments nor diagnostic tests available, there are several tests that are used by our ME experts to assess immune and endocrine system, and there are medical treatments associated with those.

Patients are worthy of the investment of medicine.
 
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Dolphin

Senior Member
Messages
17,567
My beef is more with a lot of alternative medicine rather than with some integrative MDs who often are willing to experiment a bit more than some orthodox MDs. I should probably have picked a thread with a different title to make this clearer.
 

chipmunk1

Senior Member
Messages
765
The even bigger scandal is that mind over matter quackery is considered to be part of traditional medicine.

Compare CBT with homeopathy.

Homeopathy - No active substance
CBT - No active substance

Homeopathy - Claimed to be effective for a wide variety of conditions.
CBT - Seems to be good for anything

Homeopathy - Poorly controlled trials.
CBT - Unblinded, no placebo control.

Homeopathy - The working mechanism can not be shown to exist.
CBT - The working mechanism can not be shown to exist.

Homeopathy - Works via mysterious energy/vibration/quantum mechanism.
CBT - Works via mysterious mind-body magic.

Then people complain that a fortune is spent on homeopathy while the UK spent close to one billion on CBT.

It seems that medicine thinks their own brand of quackery is acceptable while competing quackeries are unscientific. Their textbooks are still full with freudian quackery and no one bothers to look to closely. Hypocrites.
 
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OkRadLakPok

Senior Member
Messages
124
I went to a fairly well known one. They were good in that they ordered ANY test you wanted. However, they never did anything more than send you to the hospital for tests. So, let's say you did not want a CT scan and the Integrative Dr understood and sympathized. In the end, if he felt you needed one, there you go and you have to say NO.

So it was this battle of "OK, let's do Integrative things" and then "Now let's do conventional" They had tons of stuff insurance would not cover like massage and accupunture and all that, and when I could not afford it, they just gave up. So the gig is to go all out with conventional Drs and then go to them for the ancillary stuff that only rich can afford.

I quit the contract after 3 months. Was not worth it at all.
 

*GG*

senior member
Messages
6,389
Location
Concord, NH
I went to a fairly well known one. They were good in that they ordered ANY test you wanted. However, they never did anything more than send you to the hospital for tests. So, let's say you did not want a CT scan and the Integrative Dr understood and sympathized. In the end, if he felt you needed one, there you go and you have to say NO.

So it was this battle of "OK, let's do Integrative things" and then "Now let's do conventional" They had tons of stuff insurance would not cover like massage and accupunture and all that, and when I could not afford it, they just gave up. So the gig is to go all out with conventional Drs and then go to them for the ancillary stuff that only rich can afford.

I quit the contract after 3 months. Was not worth it at all.

Not my experience at all. My Dr is not local, so not practical for me to see him for massage and acupuncture anyways. Doing alright without both!

GG