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Insomnia Rant Me Too

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by madietodd, Oct 26, 2012.

  1. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    I've been following Heaps' Insomnia Rant (http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...o-phosphatidylserine.19901/page-2#post-307036), and am about ready to try some of his supplements.
    What hasn't worked for me is:
    Any type/dose of melatonin keeps me awake or does nothing.
    Benadryl (antihistamine) works well, but causes memory loss.
    7mg dhea every morning made no difference.

    My cortisol (by saliva testing) is bottom of normal am and top of normal range pm - backwards, but in range.

    I have tryptophan on hand, and have ordered phosphatoserine and withania. So I'm thinking of starting with these 3 and seeing what happens.

    Since I already have the tryptophan, is there any point in starting with it on its own? To see if it does anything? I'm wondering if it's best to somehow test these individually and in combinations, or if they work best together.

    I'm still hoping to avoid sleep medication, but if this doesn't work, I'll have to cave. I sleep very lightly for the first hour or two, and wake up 4 times a night.

    Madie
     
  2. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    hi Madie

    Earlier this morning I posted in this General Treament section in the thread about Wellbutrin that I tried a fairly high dose last night of melatonin, and like you, it kept me awake. The exact opposite reaction than I expected. Anybody know what's up with this? I first took 3mg's sublingual, layed in bed for 2 hours could not sleep..took another 3mg..still layed in bed for awhile before I finally fell asleep.
     
  3. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    Have you seen a hormone specialist about balancing hormones? Bio Identical ones of course. Estrogen and Progesterone gel, Testosterone if needed, Pregnenalone, 7 keto DHEA, etc all balanced and tested yearly. Good for sleep, eye health, cholesterol, fatigue, bone, brain, skin, hair, neurotransmitters. I used Dr. Dzugan for years, he is amazing. Most doctors think they understand how to do it, but they do not.
     
  4. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    hi Sally

    I'm not positive you were speaking to me, but I'll assume that you were. Unfortunately seeing a hormone specialist would be an incredibly expensive option for me since currently I have no health insurance. I am however, beginnning to work on hormone issues. I'm taking HC tabs as well as taking DHEA. I am able to handle DHEA now where in the past I could not even tolerate a smaller mg dosage of it due to crazy itchiness and just an overall weird feeling from taking it. I have neither of those symptoms now from it. I'm taking 25mg's of DHEA per day. I just find it kind of strange that I'm not the only one melatonin can have an opposite effect on. It could possibly be dose related and maybe more is not better with melatonin. I know there is many people that I have heard say that no one should even get into the mg dosing of it. I just figured more was better since I needed to konk myself out and it just had the opposite effect.
     
  5. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    7 DHEA is not the same as DHEA. It is hard to do all of this alone but maybe someday you can find someone to help.

    I was posting about Maddie, but I hope you can sleep also Rand.

    Hormone balance has been the most important things I have done. Took years to find the right doctor. Other "hormone specailists" knew very little.
     
  6. loayachil

    loayachil

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    Hey,

    I just wrote this elsewhere, so I'm not sure if I should repost it, but it might be useful:

    I have tried a whole bunch of sleep meds, such as Ambian, Rozeram, etc. with zero help. I take a huge amount of melatonin (whatever).
    There was one medication (I know you mentioned natural, but noone seems to mention this) called Flurazepam (Dalmane) which is a relaxent medication and helped me sleep a lot. I still woke up completely exhausted, but I would only wake up 2-3 times a night while I was on it. According to my last gp, it is addictive, but does not cause liver damage. It is meant as a relaxant and therefore might fit what you describe. It works different than most sleeping medications (sorry, I dont have the med knowledge).

    I think that even without insurance this is a cheap medication.

    Hope this helps,
    Lo
     
  7. L'engle

    L'engle moderate ME

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    I also had a bad effect from melatonin, worsened sleep. I'm curious about the phosphatidyl serine most right now.
     
  8. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    Thanks, all! Sally, I mentioned hormones to my doctor, and she said "That's why I tested thyroid." So I'll have to look around more if I want help in that department. I'm not going to mess with hormone replacement on my own.

    Loayachil, I have tried Ambien (tiny dose kept me up all night) and klonopin (I walked into the wall looking for the bathroom)........years ago. I've saved your idea on my to-try-if-this-fails list. I'd probably have to do a sleep study before taking a relaxant, in case I have any apnea going on.

    Thanks, gang.
     
  9. loayachil

    loayachil

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    MadieTodd,
    When I said relaxant, I meant it in the loose sense of the term that it is meant to make you relax.

    I walked into a wall while sleeping even before I started sleep medication (I think) : -). After my entire face swelled up, I went to the doctor the next day to see if I broke my nose/jaw and he wanted to know if I was being abused.
    :-%
    Lo
     
  10. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    I've struggled with insomnia for years, Madietodd, but here are a couple of supplements that help me with the waking up repeatedly during the night. They are both available from Amazon and iHerb. The first is Gaia Herbs Sleepthru:

    http://www.iherb.com/Gaia-Herbs-SleepThru-60-Veggie-Liquid-Phyto-Caps/38862

    The second one is Jarrow StressTame. These are strong suckers! I'd start with 1 cap. before bed:

    http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-StressTame-60-Capsules/289

    If you are waking up because of blood sugar drops during the night, you might try a snack of something like almonds with dried figs an hour or so before bed. The almonds are a long-acting protein, and the figs have carbs and tryptophan, which help with serotonin.

    Also, have you ever been tested for apnea? I ask because even very mild sleep apnea can cause you to wake up repeatedly.

    I was really surprised I had apnea because I'm thin and don't snore. I have a small airway and a long palate, so I can't change those conditions. I wear a dental device rather than CPAP.

    Best of luck! Sleep problems are the suckiest!
     
    taniaaust1 and madietodd like this.
  11. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    :eek:
     
    madietodd likes this.
  12. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    No, I've never done a sleep study. This is the first I've heard of a dental device for apnea.......very interesting. I see my doctor in a month. If this doesn't work, I'll ask about a sleep study, a hormone doctor (maybe one of Dzugan's clinics), and sleep meds.
     
  13. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Any good GP can test for hormones--if they are willing! And, unlike some things, the results are fairly obvious!

    Sushi
     
    madietodd likes this.
  14. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi Madie,

    You might want to consider this product (A to B Calm Instant Calcium Magnesium Drink Powder). I discovered it many years ago, and wouldn't be without it. I've used it to help my sleep, but have also used it for all kinds of restless and painful symptoms. What's quite remarkable is that I usually get results in a matter of minutes.

    Recently, I "tweaked" my lower back, and took more than normal. I noticed that my sleep was better than normal during this time, even though I was dealing with some annoying back pain. Many friends have tried it as well, and most are equally surprised by the degree and swiftness of relief. --- Just a thought that it might work for your situation. -- Wayne

    [​IMG]
     
  15. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    I bought this when you recommended it on another thread. I had taken magnesium at night for a long time........I didn't find this product to make a difference. But I remember being confused about how much to take....maybe I thought it's better absorbed so I took too little? How much do you use?

    Madie
     
  16. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Madie, its probably a good thing to try the supps on there own and then try in different combo's. Try the tryptophan and see, common doses are between 1000mg-3000mg. If u have high night time cortisol then phos serine might help you as its helped me with this issue. All u can do is try it. I still need a small amount of sleep meds to get me to sleep but the phos serine is definately improving my sleep quality.

    good luck,
    let us know how u go,
    cheers!!
     
    madietodd likes this.
  17. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hey, you mean somebody ACTUALLY listens to me??? :D If I take it for something other than daily maintenance, I'll take up to 6 tsps over an hour period. It's actually not that much compared to some other supplement tablets, but since it's much more absorbable, it can really make a difference, and does for me. Since you've already got it, I would give 6 tsps a try. I think you could even safely take considerably more if that amount didn't work. Good luck. :thumbsup: -- Wayne
     
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  18. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    I just found notes from a year ago, when I was taking 2000 mg tryptophan in various combinations with theanine and benadryl. The 3 together worked pretty well, but when I stopped the benadryl, the other 2 didn't help. So maybe I'll start tonight at 2K tryptophan and see what happens.
     
  19. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Try to use tryptophan a few hours after eating any protein as other amino acid sources can interfer with how it works. I have been using 3000mg of late. Use the benadryl once in awhile if have havent had any good sleep for awhile, sometimes one good night sleep can 'reset' the brain and u will find it easier to sleep after that for a few nights.

    cheers!!
     
    madietodd and Wayne like this.
  20. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    Well, that was a bust. I tried 2000mg tryptophan first, because I had that on hand. Then I added the Jarrow and Gaia herbs when they arrived. No changes.

    2 nights ago I added 470mg ashwagandha and 100mg phos serine and was up all night. Mitigating circumstances.......decided to keep trying. Last night I increased the phos serine to 200, and I don't think I slept longer than 45 minutes at a stretch.

    I also have this paradoxical (awake) reaction to Ambien (at half the smallest dose) and melatonin (every dose, every type). It seems that this should be a clue of some kind. On the other hand, benadryl works pretty well, but it destroys my memory.

    Grrrrr.
     

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