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Infection = confusion, low hr, sob, worse OI, fatigue ?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by xchocoholic, May 18, 2014.

  1. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Someday I'll remember this and stop thinking it's a "cfs" flare.

    I'm not sure what's up exactly other than having the symptoms listed above a lot of pelvic pain. BUT I started treating with about 8 oz of cranberry juice and raw garlic every few hours and within a few hours my sob was mostly gone.
    I'm still dealing with intermittent sob, fatigue and some pain.

    This is how quickly my body reacts after I've cleared a stone. I've had a raging uti infection via urinalysis at the doctor's office and within a few hours of passing the stone it's gone. And it takes me 24-48 hours typically to stabilize. I'll need 2 bottles of real cranberry juice, diluted, and have to drink enough to fill my bladder each time.

    Previously on multiple occasions I was told that I had to take antibiotics for the infection but learned on my own that my symptoms would clear with cranberry juice, etc once the stone has passed. These infections appear to be triggered by kidney stones and once I pass these my body recovers quickly.

    These stones are too small for me to feel passing and in my confused state I never think about using a strainer to catch them. I feel slight pressure in my ureter when urinating tho. For a week or so, urinating was impeded but not blocked. The confusion keeps me from realizing this symptom.

    My last dr knew that the symptoms listed in my title meant that I had an infection of some kind for some reason. My new dr totally missed it. Anyone else get this way ? I can see how a dr could miss this but I'm curious as to how my integrative dr knew these symptoms meant I had an infection. H pylori did this to me too.

    My body temp doesn't typically get any higher than 98.? or maybe 99.2? So raging infection doesn't equal high temp.

    Tx .. x
    Last edited: May 18, 2014
  2. Sherlock

    Sherlock bicarb for exercise recovery and taming candida

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    An infection (or even just bacterial wall fragments) getting into the bloodstream leads to release of histamine and nitric oxide (NO is a primitive part of immunity, since it's an oxidant, but also the main vasodilator). That dilates arteries so you get orthostatic hypotension. Histamine constricts lung passages so you get sob.

    Way too much of the above leads to hypotensive shock, a medical emergency - but not your case.

    Confusion, maybe from inadequate blood flow to the brain?

    But there should be high heart rate, not low, to compensate for low BP.

    My usual temp since getting sick is 97.2, so 99.2 would be a fever for me :)
    xchocoholic likes this.
  3. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I knew that POTS can get worst and confusion can happen with infection but didnt realise about those about those other things. Im confused by how you thought you had worst POTS yet your heart rate was lower. When my POTS gets worst, it makes my heart rate go up eg my resting heart rate can go up to 140 with worst POTS....same with infection.
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
    xchocoholic likes this.
  4. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Hi @Sherlock,

    Thanks. I need to reread this carefully but I get the idea. I'm hoping I caught this early enough to avoid getting pyelonephritis again. So far so good but I only started treating Friday night. That's when my symptoms finally made sense to me. It was funny, I'd started drinking about 2 -4 ounces of cranberry juice
    daily but drinking enough to eliminate an infection didn't dawn on me. Duh!

    My bp was normal for me but my sitting hr was 60. That's lower than my norm when I'm feeling good.

    My sob improved dramatically within hours of my first treatment. I went from getting winded from just standing up to taking my normal 20 minute walk. I got a little tired but that was expected since I hadn't exercised in about 10 days. Again, this is my normal reaction once I've passed a stone which is why I think I had one probably stuck in my bladder or ureter.

    I was taking a tiny bit of vicodin, biting off tiny pieces from 1/2-1 pill daily as needed, for pain too so that probably didn't help my confusion. I'm off it now because I don't need it. And using caffeine for energy.

    I'm going to put a post-its everywhere to remind me to look for utis or stones if I'm feeling puny. Hopefully I won't be too confused to read them. Lol.

    Tc ... x
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
  5. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    HI @taniaaust1,

    I didn't do a pmttt because I was too sick. But I could barely stand up without getting sob and petite mal and laying down helped. So I concluded it was my pots. I don't feel well after pmttts so I'm going to pass on trying it right now.

    The only hr taken was at the drs. My bp / hr monitor needs a new battery so I can't check it.

    I was getting so winded at times that it I had to breath thru my mouth until everything settled down. I've done that before so I wasn't too worried. 24 years of "not dying" ;) has helped me stay relaxed when my body flakes out.

    Tc ... x
    November Girl likes this.
  6. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I was just curious about how common it is for people, esp pwcs, to have this kind of reaction to an infection. Could this contribute doctors not taking us seriously ? How often are infections missed because of this type of reaction ?

    Is it possible that this kind of reaction is more common or limited to urinary tract infections because toxins aren't being cleared ?

    When a friend went thru treatment for liver cancer I saw how confused she got when toxins built up in her system. She was able to go to an ER for some kind of special treatment, iv?, that made her confusion stop.

    So liver problems can lead to confusion too.

    Btw looking back this probably started around April 10th. That's when I first became easily confused and noticed a little weakness. Up till then I'd been walking daily, etc.

    I'm still needing to rest after posting as little as this. Tc .. x
  7. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    What was your friend's IV txtment pls?
    xchocoholic likes this.
  8. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    Happens to me all the time. I'm not prone to UTIs, but do seem to get a lot of nasal and respiratory infection. When I get infections, I have just the reactions you described.
    xchocoholic likes this.
  9. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Sorry. I don't know. This person had liver cancer and was undergoing chemo so I was too distraught to remember what it was. She died within a few months after starting treatment.

    It may be listed under chemo or liver cancer treatments. Tc .. x
  10. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Thanks. So it's not just associated with the kidney or liver.

    Do you have pots ? Maybe that's the connection ?

    Tc .. x
  11. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    Yes, I have hyperadrenergic POTS. I don't know if it's that, or some cytokine thing, or (most probably) an inflammation thing. Or something else entirely. :p An infection is an ME crash trigger for me, so I'm figuring the same sort of thing is at the root of it.

    My kidneys and liver are in great shape so far, so I'd guess this reaction is not associated with the kidneys or liver.
    xchocoholic likes this.
  12. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I'm still processing this.

    Sherlock's info about histamine could explain these symptoms too, right ? It's not just histamine being released in my case tho.
    My body goes into overdrive and produces massive amounts of white blood cells when I get stuck stones.

    Ok, that hurt my head. Lol.

    I'm confused about what "cfs" symptoms are nowadays. Most of my "cfs" symptoms are under control via diet but I'm a celiac.

    I'm guessing the fact that my body over reacts to things, including stones, chemicals, gluten, etc would indicate "cfs". I'm going to need a new body. ;)

    Maybe what sets us apart is how we react to toxins or infections.
    I know several people who can still function when they get stones or infections. So why do we / I get sooooo wiped out ? Over responsive immune system ?

    Tc ... x
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  13. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I just googled uti confusion and found out that it's common in the elderly. It can be the most obvious symptom in this group since as we age our immune systems may not respond with a fever.

    Chronilogically I'm 58 but my body is older.

    I'm still dealing with fatigue and confusion from this but uti symptom is gone. :) It's weird feeling more goofy than usual.
    I'm more emotional / whiny right now too. Can't wait to really get old. Lol.

    Tc .. x
  14. November Girl

    November Girl Senior Member

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    I'm 57, but have had CFS since age 19. I've been slowly improving for the past 10 years; still pretty sick, but no longer nearly bedridden. A 63-year old friend recently commented that it's nice to hear of someone's health getting better, as opposed to most people in our age group!
    xchocoholic likes this.
  15. November Girl

    November Girl Senior Member

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    I've found that an infection makes about all of my symptoms worse, certainly mental acuity and energy. My thought has been that our bodies are functioning as well as they can with our current situation. Adding anything else on top of this is more than they can handle.
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  16. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Good point @November Girl. Whatever our bodies are fighting makes anything else we get too much to handle. The list of possible pathogens or broken immune system pieces is overwhelming.

    So, I woke up feeling healthy for the first time in about a month. Yay! My OI is still bad so it didn't last long after getting up but I'm still encouraged. Looks like I won't be needing antibiotics. :)

    Tc .. x
    November Girl likes this.
  17. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Does anyone know why my integrative doctor (trained in traditional and holistic medicine) knew that these symptoms meant that I had an infection ?

    Many of my symptoms / diagnosises were missed by traditional doctors over the years. Hyperinsulinemia was missed because the wrong gtt was ordered. Hashimoto's was missed because my thyroid numbers are within the normal range. The list goes on and on.

    So do the patients who see integrative doctors have weakened immune systems and my diagnosises are common in people with weak immune systems?

    The autism community is a group who's seeing some success with the kind of treatments provided by these doctors.

    Is the connection leaky gut ? This is what DAN (defeat autism now) treats. Leaky gut accounts for so many
    of my symptoms and in my case having celiac disease will keep it leaky.

    Are we untreatable with drugs since our bodies respond poorly to these ? And therefore traditional doctors don't know what to do ?

    So many questions, eh ? ... x
  18. November Girl

    November Girl Senior Member

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    I may be totally wrong, but I suspect that integrative doctors have a far more nuanced knowledge of how the body works.
    xchocoholic likes this.
  19. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I had to google nuance. It would make sense that my traditional doctor didn't pick up on this because she doesn't know me so she doesn't know I'm not always confused and whiny.

    I read that left untreated people with utis can act crazy. If I'd done anything really crazy I wonder where I'd be right now.

    Tc .. x

    Ps. I'm still fighting this. My OI and pem are the worst they've been in months. I probably backed off the treatments too soon.
    Last edited: May 23, 2014
  20. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Btw. I don't see this as a personal problem but as a problem for patients in general.

    But, imho, most if not all pwcs are going to see more of this than other types of patients because we have damaged immune systems and don't run fevers.

    And with our cognitive abilities already compromised it doesn't take much to push us into a state of confusion.

    Tc .. x

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