Choline on the Brain? A Guide to Choline in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
http://phoenixrising.me/research-2/the-brain-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-mecfs/choline-on-the-brain-a-guide-to-choline-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-by-cort-johnson-aug-2005
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Incredible improvements with Helminthic Therapy

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by Gyre, Jan 26, 2017.

  1. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I certainly would not give up on it yet, because the in the above Hookworm Timeline post, it says that benefits only start to begin to appear at the 12 week point, and 20 weeks (5 months) is when the worms really get into the their stride in terms of providing benefits.
     
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  2. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    Thanks @Hip. Yes, I saw that they only get into their stride at week 20. Still, a lot of the anecdotes I read talk about improvements much earlier, so I was always hopeful I would see changes early on too.

    Nevertheless, there is ample opportunity for the worms to start doing their things - both from a time and dosing perspective - and I still remain cautiously optimistic that this could be what I need to get me out of my multi-year rut.

    Are you still planning to start therapy?
     
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  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Yes, I've been testing lots of other treatments recently (as usual), but I am looking to start helminth therapy soon.
     
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  4. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    I can highly recommend Wormswell for when you decide to make the plunge.
     
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  5. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Yes, those are the people I will use when I buy my Necator americanus helminths.
     
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  6. jaybee00

    jaybee00

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    Hi,

    Any updates from @Gyre?
     
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  7. Gyre

    Gyre

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    Still doing well. In fact, I've started a new business! We're now manufacturing cold brewed coffee and tea, so this requires hauling around large kegs of drinks, standing and bottling for hours at a go and working at Gourmet Food shows and having to be on my feet for entire work days. I still need recovery time after hard work, but I can get it done if I pace myself.

    I added LDN about 8 months ago which gave me a small, but noticeable improvement in stamina and better sleep.

    I did have a bit of a set back a few months ago when I let my inoculation schedule slip. Instead of adding a few new wormie friends at three months, I didn't add any for five months and the effect was NOT good. I'm still getting back to where I was, energy-wise, but that will teach me!
     
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  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    That's very interesting, @Gyre, as it shows the importance of constantly maintaining a healthy colony of worms in the intestines in order to keep ME/CFS symptoms at bay.

    Pleased to hear that you are still doing well, and still in near full remission from ME/CFS.
     
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  9. Gyre

    Gyre

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    Some people can get away with only inoculating every 6 months, 1 year or even 3 years, but I'm obviously not one of them. A two to three month schedule with very small numbers (3-5 NA) is what seems to work best for me.
     
  10. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I wonder if you are eating anything that can kill worms? In the second half of this post, some foods that can kill helminths are listed.
     
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  11. Gyre

    Gyre

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    Highly unlikely, as I'd be seeing a much more sudden symptomatic change of course. I was extremely conservative the first 6 months on HT in avoiding anything that could conceivably cause a problem. When I added in various spices and other foods after 6 months of extreme caution, I saw no difference and that was over a year ago.

    Most foods are fine at normal consumption levels. I avoid overdoing it on coconut products and some spices, but the only thing I actively avoid is peppermint oil. I LOVE peppermint oil and it is easy for me to go overboard with it, so it is safer to avoid completely.
     
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  12. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Here is a possible explanation of how helminth therapy works for ME/CFS:


    Resistin appears to be induced by helminth infection, and resistin can be pro-inflammatory in some contexts (this study says that helminth infection causes the release of resistin, which then promotes proinflammatory cytokines and impedes parasite clearance).

    However, this study finds that resistin has anti-inflammatory effects by blocking the LPS-induced activation of TLR-4.

    This then perhaps makes helminth therapy for ME/CFS similar to low-dose naltrexone (LDN) therapy, as LDN
    blocks TLR-4 on microglia (LDN also increases levels of met-enkephalin and blocks the mu-opioid, delta-opioid and kappa-opioid receptors).
     
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  13. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    Philosophically and mechanistically this treatment is very interesting, as it's using another living organism to favorably augment the host. I imagine there are countless biological feedback loops going on that would be almost impossible to replicate with pharmaceuticals in their current incarnation.

    It reminds me of other biological treatments that come from the byproducts of separate organisms such as fecal matter transplants (FMT), and intravenous immunoglobulins (IVIG). Helminth therapy of course goes one step beyond as it's utilizing an actual living organism housed within the body.
     
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  14. jaybee00

    jaybee00

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  15. Henrik

    Henrik

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    I would say I had mild CFS over the last 6-7 years and then veering into moderate over the last year. One of the reasons I started with the hookwarms was that I was getting pretty desperate. In the beginning of this year I had gone from managable fatigue to sleeping 8 hours a night and another 2 hours after lunch and still not being able to work.

    From what I gather from Phoenix Rising there are different types of CFS. I think my fatigue has an auto immune component and this is something Helminthic Therapy seems to do well with. My other issues were IBS, Eosinophilic esophagitis, chronic rhinitis so there seemed to be a theme were I had an overactive immun esystem which left me with lots of inflammation

    I started with 10 NA and I changed nothing else in terms of supplements for the first 16 weeks. It’s obviously difficult to judge these N=1 experiments, but I’m currently feeling better than in years and I credit the hookworms with that. I’m not at normal person status, but on most days I can get in 5-6 hours of desk work and I’ve been able to do yoga twice a week.

    As general advice I would say start out slow. You see a lot of people in the main facebook group start out with 20NA. I would avoid that. I started out with 10NA and between weeks 5-8 I was very tired and had persistent stomach problems.

    I did another 7NA a month back and will try to build up until I have 50 or so. I think that if you have similar symptoms it’s worth a try. It’s honestly less intrusive than a lot of other things we put ourselves through and there is a decent amunt of peer reviewed work on hookworms.
     
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