The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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increased heart rate going from walking to standing

Discussion in 'Autonomic, Cardiovascular, and Respiratory' started by voner, Oct 2, 2016.

  1. voner

    voner Senior Member

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    i'm curious if anyone understands the inner dynamics of the autonomic system as related to this phenomenon I experience.

    At times, when I go for a slow walk my heart rate Will raise 20 to 30 bpm during the walk. If I stop walking and just stand completely still, my heart rate will raise another 20 or 30 bpm on top of The walking rate aand stay at this elevated right as long as I keep still in standing.

    anybody understand the dynamics of the signaling of the autonomic system that would cause this?

    thanks in advance.
     
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  2. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    @voner I don't know the answer but I do know that standing still in one spot is extremely difficult for me since getting ill and has only gotten worse. If I have to walk across the room without my wheelchair (which is rare), then it is easier to just walk across vs. to stand in one place. If I stand in one place too long (more than about 30 seconds) I usually end up sitting on the floor in order to avoid falling b/c I am so breathless. But I can sit at a computer and read/type or work on projects for eight hours straight if needed. I can feel and appear totally normal until I attempt to stand up (and then it is instantly clear how disabled I am). I am not sure if this relates but if I could solve it, it would solve the absolute core of my illness.
     
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  3. flybro

    flybro Senior Member

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    pluto
    @Gingergrrl

    same here, the dizzy brain drain is almost instant, sit down all fall dow, and an inabilty to make verbal sense, or understand whats being said to me.
     
  4. flybro

    flybro Senior Member

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    pluto
    also heart dosent feel so much racing, as really pounding loudly,
     
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  5. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    Do either of you @voner or @flybro feel breathless and/or chest pain when standing up and trying to walk?
     
  6. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    I don't claim to understand this problem on a mechanistic level but I wonder if it relates to better blood circulation during walking vs standing due to muscles contracting in legs when you walk? My heart rate is reasonably ok if I'm walking at a slow pace but standing still the POTS really flares up.
     
  7. AndyPR

    AndyPR Senior Member

    I think this. The use of your leg and torso muscles while walking helps to prevent the gravity encouraged pooling of blood in your legs. When you stop, your heart then beats harder to get the blood back up from your legs. I believe it is due, in part, to the blood vessels in our legs not constricting enough when we stand up.
     
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  8. flybro

    flybro Senior Member

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    pluto
    yes breathless, no chest pain, although my ribs are uncomfortable most of the time anway.

    i think blood just dropd into my boots when i stand still, and noisy heart is empty chamber trying to suck blood up hiil.

    sorry 4 lazy typos, not well coordnated today.
     
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  9. Marco

    Marco Grrrrrrr!

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  10. voner

    voner Senior Member

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    I don't feel breathless or chest pain.
     
  11. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    I was just curious and I am close to 100% certain that in addition to POTS, I have a neuromuscular issue that affects my breathing b/c no one else seems to have this as a constant issue (when standing).
     
  12. voner

    voner Senior Member

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    thanks Marco.

    I skimmed those two references, but i'm not sure I understand what heart rate recovery really means.

    additional information:

    -if I sit down or lie down, my heart rate drops down to resting rate, it only increases after walking and standing still.

    -anytime i am standing still, my heart rate varability drops like a rock to almost nothing (on a 0 to 100 scale when I'm slow walking it's in the 50s and 60s and when I stop in standstill it drops near zero).
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  13. Marco

    Marco Grrrrrrr!

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    Normally after exercise your heart rate should relatively quickly return to normal resting rate but in diabetes and ME/CFS the elevated heart rate persists for much longer - apparently associated with autonomic dysfunction.
     
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  14. voner

    voner Senior Member

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    thanks.... The details of that dysfunction is what I'm hoping somebody might provide.
     
  15. Marco

    Marco Grrrrrrr!

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    Sorry but I don't have the time to go into detail at the moment. Essentially it's enhanced sympathetic and reduced parasympathetic tone but it's not just a yin and yang thing. Both (excluding the gastric) arms of the autonomic system can be impaired up or down.
     
  16. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    That is my understanding also. It is the reason tilt-table testing is considered to be preferable to the poor-person's version. It is virtually impossible to stand completely still - there will always be slight leg movements - the tilt table supposedly eliminates this.
     
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  17. skwag

    skwag Senior Member

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    This matches my experience as well. In terms of activities that slow down the tachycardia for me, we can order them worst to best.

    standing leaning against wall < standing still (always there is some minor muscle movement) < purposefully shifting weight between feet < walking in place << walking

    Note that walking is actually much better than walking in place. There must be some muscles that are only active while actually walking forward that significantly help circulation.

    In my case, the lower legs get red from the blood pooling. However, if I start walking the redness goes away most of the time and the tachycardia decreases. I'm mostly OK if I keep moving, although it is still tiring being on my feet for long periods.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
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  18. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    Pretty sure it's this. Same thing happens to me. I can replicate the effect for a few seconds by standing in place and flexing my leg muscles as hard as I can (while trying not to accidentally do a valsava). It drops my HR by 10 or more BPM for a few seconds before the exertion causes it to shoot back up.
     
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  19. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    that sounds like POTS. POTS testing is always done while standing still as the heart rate increases more on standing then if one was moving. With POTS low blood volume is usually involved, so the faster heart when standing and not moving would be the bodies natural response to try to get the blood to brain. Often there can be an adrenaline response involved in that too.
     
  20. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    If you look at POTS symptoms it can case chest pain and breathnessless.
     

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