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In your opinion..

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by joshi81, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    A question... in your opinion if i am :

    MTHFR 677 Normal
    MTHFR 1298 Heterozygous

    and in labs reading i have normal blood Folate and Homocisteine below the reference range (you can see the lab results attached down here)

    Should i be concerned about methylfolate? i mean i should take methylfolate or i can take just b12s?

    And why in your opinion i have a so loe homocisteine? doctors tell it is something good but...i don't know and i don't know if i can have a methylation problem even with these readings...what do u think?
    Oh i have the gene GTSM1 missing...
     

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  2. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    My 2c, I am not an expert.

    Homocysteine level is not bad. It is slightly below 5. I am not sure if with that value you can be defined an over-methylator. Maybe other people here with more experience will be able to say.

    My "knowledge" about this subject comes mainly from this book:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008DTOGPK/ref=oh_d__o02_details_o02__i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    which I can recommend because it's well researched and thorough.

    As regards B12 and Folates. A regular doctor would say your B12 is fine but, as you probably have found in this forum , B12 serum level doesn't provide the full picture. Anyways you will probably benefit from some B12, given your current blood work.

    Folates... that usually just means folic acid, so again it's just one part of the picture.

    I am not sure if you would benefit extra methyl-folate. You can try with a relatively low dose of 200-400mcg and see if you get positive effects. I would anyways keep an eye on the Hcy level and if it goes down I would probably avoid pushing your methylation cycle with those supplements.

    Cheers
     
  3. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    the point is just this... i'm a bit concerned if starting the methylation protocol or i really don't know if i have a methylation issue because i have a so low Homocisteyne... i'm going to do the organic acids profile where ther eis also the methylmalonic acid wich will show the reality about my b12 balance...
    i don't know what to do with methylfolate just because of my low homocisteine...uhm...
    For folate ' not taling folic acid from any source.. i eat oly rice(white) and potatoes as carbs the meat, eggs, vegetables fruit... no multivitamins so i think i'm not introducing folic acid..
     
  4. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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  5. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I'm trying to remember where I heard this - it was either Ben Lynch or one of the MTHFRsupport podcasts - very low homocysteine can also be an indicator of methylation problems. Of course, I can't remember why this is so. Maybe it just means you're not methylating enough to produce much homocysteine.

    I agree, some functional testing, such as the methylation pathways panel that xrunner mentioned, would give you a better picture of what's going on in your methylation cycle. The Nutreval test is also good, plus it measures vitamins and minerals and a bunch of other stuff.
     
    helen1 likes this.
  6. PennyIA

    PennyIA Senior Member

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    I think my concer is that even with the two methylation defects that you've had tested? It's not sufficient to answer the questions. Like others I think a methylation panel would be helpful... as well as testing all of the genes identified in the methylation process - which is more than just those two genes. While not a complete list - I'm thinking 23andme.com still has the bulk of them and even with the fda restrictions - you can still run the raw data results against geneticgenie.com for free to get a better picture.

    I know that one of the questions I'm being asked about why I think my genetics is tied to my health issues, yet others with MTHFR A1298C don't have the same health issues - is because I think they are looking at an incomplete set of data.

    If 90% of the people who aren't ill but have homozygous MTHFR A1298C (which is what I have) do NOT have more than one or two other genetic defects within the mehtylation and detox pathways.... that would be statistically significant. And I'll bet that there's probably another 10% who DO have more genetic defects (like I do) but might have lower exposures to everyday toxins, etc. No theory/tests behind my thoughts... just a gut feeling that the only reason MTHFR is being taken so lightly is because they are trying to find a single genetic marker instead of realizing that it might be the result of a cumulative issue of the multiple genes that contribute to those processes in the whole system.
     
  7. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    really thank you...so the restrictions at 23and me what they means? because i wanted to run that test but i didnt understand what is restricted i... do u know?
     
  8. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

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    They are not giving health reports at this time for new customers. That's not the area that was valuable to us though. They will still provide access to your raw data which is what we are interested in.

    One area of concern though, that has nothing to do with the FDA, is that 23andme used to test around 960 000 snps and now they will only be testing 600 000. It is not known yet which snps will be left out or how relevant those ones are.

    As well as leaving many out there will be some new ones added in. 23andme is trying to convince its customers this is a positive move but we'll have to wait and see. Someone asked them how many MTHFR snps they would be testing and the answer was 63. My test taken earlier had 59 so MTHFR is still well covered.
     
    helen1 likes this.
  9. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Josh,

    There is only one problem. Homocysteine is contained in one of at least 6 levels healing. You can have perfectly ideal Hcy and still have hundreds of other things wrong. I got to ask you, what brings you to a CFS/FMS/ME board? If you have the CFS/FMS/ME symptoms, those are all the evidence you need that something is wrong. There is not a test out there that can tell you that b12 and folate and carnitine are all sufficient. They can tell you the house is already burned down, but not that you have the old aluminum wiring with the wrong fixtures that causes fires (an analogy). Go to the pages of symptoms by nutrient Levels of methylation and make a list of all the symptoms you have. Again, an MMA test will only tell you that you have a problem after years of damage typically and as the damage causes lots of symptoms you have known about it for years. If you believe those tests as indicating adequacy because they don't say that the structure has already burned down you haven't a chance to get well if you have these things. As partial methylation block is PARTIAL it can be getting worse on 5 layers and better on 1. Then there is partial ATP block which causes MMA. By the time MMA is considered "excessive" you may have had 100 symptoms for a decade. The tests were designed to stop people from dying, not detect the beginning of the problem while it is fully fixable.

    Also, I did an N=1000 developmental questionnaire study. People without symptoms have no response to MeCbl or AdoCbl or Methylfolate or Carnitine. Only people with symptoms have responses. The worse the symptoms, the more symptoms, the bigger the response. Further certain types of damage cause hyper sensitive responses. Go list all the symptoms you have on those lisrs, then in a separate group, all your remaining symptoms. If you have those symptoms, lots of them the odds are about 95% that there will be a response to one or more of the deadlock quartet and the other 5% usually with any of a group of about a dozen more items.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
  10. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    Thanks, the thing is... i read that having homocisteyne low has a bad impact on methylation and on glutatione production because low homociusteine brings low something else (cysteine??) and from there low glutathione is produced so my concern was... if i take methylb12 or methylfolate maybe a lower my homocisteine more than is now and less glutathione is produced...i don't know...
    My symptoms are: inlamation-like neuromuscolar symptoms in hands, feet, chest, arms and legs (not so painful or acute but an average pain) easy breathless, trembling of muscle under effort even small effort.
    But i have not a loss of strenght even if i have the perceprion of muscular weakness.
    Anywat it's clear that i'm going to try... i just was thinking at loud voise with you my thoughts about my labs
     
  11. nandixon

    nandixon Senior Member

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    You might like to look at this thread:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/low-homocysteine-and-b12-deficiency.5562/
     
  12. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Well, good luck. Only trials can tell you the truth.
     
  13. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    thanks nandixon :) i read it all interesting... wel as fredd says thre's nothing best to try and see what happen
     

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