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In a desperate effort to rid myself of this, I need some guidance.

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Methhead81, Dec 8, 2015.

  1. Methhead81

    Methhead81

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    Let's cut to the chase, I am 19, male, and suffering from CFS symptoms that have been pretty bad for quite a few years (around 5 years, prior to then it was very on and off) and in the last year, after cutting out gluten from my diet, has gotten worse.

    Brain fog was always the worst symptom, that has gotten pretty bad as of late. Have cracky joints, low energy (got worse after trying to treat candida, not sure if it was diet or die off that caused it), blurry vision (changes quite often), hair loss, and occasional heart palpitations. This is really getting quite dire, so I want to try and get rid of it as soon as possible.

    I came across methylation from Curezone yesterday, at first I didn't think much of it, but further reading has convinced me to do this. My body does have the ability to detox, earlier on in my candida diet, while I was detoxing my symptoms slowly started to improve. I had this brief moment where my brain fog went down by 40% while reading a novel on my kindle. But after a month I started to feel so much worse, my energy levels are low as hell right now (don't even want to walk outside, I can still get out of bed) and I began to get numbness in certain areas of my skin (right thigh and left foot). This went away after I stopped being restrictive on my diet, but none of the other symptoms have improved. I am working on addressing the possible mineral deficiency since the diet I was on was very restrictive.

    This goes out to @caledonia and @Fredd, since they appear to be the most knowledgeable about this. IF someone could give me guidance on what to do during this whole thing with the supplements without making my problems worse, I would appreciate it. Seriously, I am worried I will die if I don't sort this issue out soon.

    I took many supplements while treating candida. Seems that my body can tolerate quite a few things without adverse reactions. IT seems that the brief improvements occurred while I was taking high doses of Zinc and Vitamin C. This occurred back in October this year, so quite recent.

    I had a hair mineral analysis with ARL that suggested copper toxicity, working with a Nutritional Balancing practitioner to address that (only started it the other day). TMG is one of the supplements he recommended.

    (I will be willing to do testing with 23andme. And I can absorb minerals from liquids quite well for the time being.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
  2. ScottTriGuy

    ScottTriGuy Stop the harm. Start the research and treatment.

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    Hey Methhead (haha) - sorry to hear you're having a rough time - for Caledonia and Fredd to know you're asking them something, you gotta put one of these in front of their name: @

    @caledonia
     
  3. Methhead81

    Methhead81

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    Thank you. I did send her a PM too after posting this.

    IT's nice to have someone help in a time like this. I am desperate especially as my brain can switch into a better state really easily.

    I may have potassium deficiency too from inducing the die off during the candida diet. So I ordered some potassium gluconate powder for the time being. That should hopefully stop my brain from rotting away...

    IF someone can tell me, if these issues cause brain damage, how come the person regains their original functionality if they are able to recover? It's really on my mind right now.
     
  4. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    Low potassium can cause severe fatigue, blurry vision and heart palpitations. I take around 1000 mg. potassium gluconate daily, in divided doses. You should not start with a large dose all at once, you need to work up to it gradually. I think I started with 400 - 600 mg. a day (in divided doses). You also might try adding in low-sodium V8 - 8 oz. has 900 mg. potassium, so it's become part of my regimen, as well as potassium gluconate. If low potassium is causing some of your symptoms, you should know pretty quickly as you will start to feel better within a couple of days.

    My sister who used to be a vegetarian developed patches of numbness on her body, I think the areas of numbness would change, but it was persistent. She started taking B12 (vegetarians are notorious for being B12 deficient) and within a week the symptoms went away. (she doesn't have CFS/ME)
     
  5. Methhead81

    Methhead81

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    Interesting.

    That would explain why that went away when I briefly went back to eating Gluten (to gain weight) temporarily. Didn't change my other symptoms much (briefly it did...).

    Might I also add that before I went on this diet, I was eating a fairly unhealthy diet with a lot of sugar (gluten free shit is very sugary) and my symptoms would fluctuate. Then after I went on this diet my symptoms basically stopped going up and down and I only had a few blips of feeling better (by around 15%) and started getting more physical symptoms.

    On the topic of b12, if I could get a genetic test done and all that good stuff, would you mind reading it for me and giving me some advice on what I should try?

    I will be extra careful to take low doses, even though I haven't developed extreme sensitivities to supplements as of yet. That's why I am trying to sort this problem out now rather than later.
     
  6. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Hi Methhead,

    Can you list exactly what kind of diet you were on for candida, especially what you were cutting out of your diet.

    Also exactly what supplements (brand name, etc.) were you on?

    ps. don't worry about your brain, it will come back as your health improves. At one point my concentration so bad that I could only read the headlines of newspaper articles and nothing else. Now I can read an entire book if I want to.

    pps. be very cautious with the TMG as it is a methylation supplement. (TMG = tri methyl glycine) It supports the secondary methylation pathway. Start with only a fraction of a pill if possible, then gradually ramp up as tolerated. Have some niacin on hand before starting it in case you get overmethylated. Small amounts of niacin can be used as a sponge to soak up excess methyl groups.
     
    Mary likes this.
  7. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I don't know if the ARL hair test actually reflects levels of metals and minerals in your body, but it could be possibly be used to detect the presence of mercury and other toxic metals using Cutler's interpretation method.

    That would be seeing if the pattern of minerals is disordered. That indicates that mercury is causing issues. Other metals can be picked up via the symptoms they're causing. The sympoms are listed in one of Cutler's books (I forget which one it is.)

    You can ask at this Yahoo group if they can interpret your test - https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/frequent-dose-chelation/info

    Do you have any known exposures to mercury, such as mercury amalgam fillings, eat a lot of fish, live near coal burning power plants, etc.? What was your mother's body burden of mercury during pregnancy with you - did she have any of these risk factors? (The baby receives a portion of the mother's body burden during pregnancy.)

    What kind of vaccinations have you had? Assuming you live in the US, you may have had three or four times the amount of vaccines that older folks had. Vaccines that contained thimerosol (mercury), aluminum, glutamate, etc.

    Gut issues such as candida are associated with mercury. There are other associations as well - antibiotic use, certain SNPs such as ACAT.
     
  8. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne Senior Member

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    As a fellow candida sufferer, I can tell you that antifungals and probiotics only work temporarily (and are basically a waste of money). For some, it might work, but I was able to make huge improvements with chelation of mercury (Cutler), so far that I barely have any gut issues left. I still have a candida problem tho... Zinc supplementation works pretty well too.
    Vaccines are a very bad idea, as well as amalgam fillings. You might wanna remove those if you have them.
    As far as diet goes, please don't toss out fruits. They contain important nutrients. Lowering bread/pasta/rice might be a good idea. Other things that work really well are resistant starch (eg chick peas) and bouillardii (this is a competing, friendly, fungal).
    Candida is a symptom and not a disease. It never comes alone and is caused by some underlying condition.
    Copper toxicity can be caused by pyrrole disorder. It might be a good idea to check out these symptoms.
    Did you do an essential mineral hair test?

    Do not make the same mistake as I did, and order some tests first before going 'all in' on a certain treatment. Maybe see a naturopath.

    I know that die off is aweful, but if you focus on detox, you'll feel much better soon.
    I got much better after a year of chelation and methylation support.
    Good luck.
     
  9. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne Senior Member

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    From Amalgam Illness, diagnosis and treatment:
     
  10. Methhead81

    Methhead81

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    Mother told me she had fillings when she was a teenager. Not while she was pregnant with me (so chances are I was exposed). I loved eating prawns growing up as well as sushi (but these symptoms got worse in the last year when I cut them out), ate tuna a lot too. There are fumes that come from restaurants where I live. Had a few vaccines (just the important ones) growing up, and I live in the UK. I am moving soon anyway so any mould problem or fume issue will be a thing of the past (apparently this house isn't mouldy). There is some mould in my house but nothing excessive.

    The hair test showed elevated levels of aluminium. The other heavy metals were low indicating poor detoxification. Apparently. I was eliminating calcium (it was out of balance with Magnesium) and copper was sky high. Everything else was out of balance.

    And I should have put this in my first post, could you explain what the acronyms are? I saw that a lot on the posts I read and it only added to my confusion with my already foggy brain lol.

    I need to reliterate. I didn't feel this bad a year ago. And abstaining from stress (masturbation) and having a better diet made me feel better until I started to crash later on.

    I must have adrenal fatigue or something. The hair test suggested it too which is why I want to get my body back to a better state so I can live a normal life again and prevent any further damage to my body.

    And I didn't use antibiotics too often growing up from recollection. Maybe I did?
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
  11. Methhead81

    Methhead81

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    Some of the symptoms listed, such as light sensitivity, actually improved during my better moments earlier this year and earlier on the anti-candida diet. No seriously, no chelation was performed.

    I can't really detox properly right now, I think it's because of a possible b12 issue or something. It's why I decided to come here because I need guidance from others on how to beat this. IT's so complicated and scary to me, I know I am actually close to a normal life again...and it seems that the last few months have revealed it may have something to do with vitamins and minerals. I had a few detox symptoms (They only occur at night and are not all that bad, they are actually pretty exciting in a way as they make my thoughts super animated) in the last few days when talking 150mcg Molybdenum, around 45mg+ Zinc Gluconate, and around 2000MG+ Vitamin C. As well as some B6.

    I got worse later on the anti candida diet, got numbness on parts of my legs (this didn't happen prior! Gone now), started to see a speck of light in my vision when closed at night (this went away, see it very slightly but it's hardly noticeable), and my bones started to get weaker and crack more...yes, seriously. The latter is why I am trying to sort this problem out once and for all without really holding back...but I am not stupid or willing to make it worse.

    And in response to Caledonia, I pretty much cut out all sugars and fruits. I wasn't eating many fruits in recent months thanks to being put on a low histamine diet (no shock there). My brain told me over and over "your condition is worsening because you cut out shit your body desperately needs" and I ignored it. Partially out of fear of discovering that...well I have metal inside killing me. I went mental earlier on when trying to kill candida, like, I kept reading about horrible illnesses that come from it and didn't want it in me anymore. Also cut out gluten...which is strange as it causes inflammation, but when waking up when I first ate gluten again I felt this warm feeling, hard to describe. It's warm as in it feels nice and fuzzy, not warm as in immune system fucking up.

    This is one more thing, since I mentioned blips in functionality and you guys seem so wise in the ways of science. At the time this started, I was taking high doses of Vit C and Zinc Citrate. I felt my emotional numbness fade at times, my brain felt more alive during a walk (I had the energy to walk earlier on in the diet, but not later) and, while forcing myself to read a book on my kindle fire(I don't have terrible EMF, not when I am feeling better especially) my concentration (basically brain fog in general) suddenly reduced by 30% for "no reason". Also started to emotionally react to things too when most of the time I am just sort of apathetic (I can see that's a mercury symptom). @caledonia

    At the moment those things don't seem to recreate the same effect, perhaps another imbalance occurred which needs fixing thanks to the diet I was on?
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
  12. Methhead81

    Methhead81

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    Oh @TheChosenOne, I heard so many scary things about people feeling worse after chelation therapy. Can't Methylation alone help reduce mercury? I want to get rid of these problems but with some degree of caution.

    On that topic. During one moment while treating candida...I tasted metal on my tongue. Some kind of metal I am not sure what. Happened during a die off moment. IT was like it was perspiring through my tongue!

    May go to see a methylation doctor in London next month to get the necessary tests.

    And for supplements I took during this period...so many to name. I did take MSM and probiotics and multiple anti-fungals.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
  13. Methhead81

    Methhead81

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    This may or may not be important, I do have food sensitivites, but they are weird in that they don't occur all the time.

    For example. Before the candida diet (and my energy fluctuated, never got 100% but wasn't rock bottom at times either), I remember eating two gluten free brownies from a coffee shop. What's interesting is that I had two, and I got worse brain fog after eating the second one (This was right after swallowing it). But on another day if I had that amount it wouldn't cause brain fog, even if I had a lot of sugar from something else.

    Meat can do similar things too. Sometimes meat (talking about steak here) makes me feel better and sometimes more foggy headed.

    Only foods I do have a consistent reaction too (I think I am not willing to eat it right now out of fear it may fuck me up further) is gluten.

    Going to turn in for the night. For some reason I feel I am doing the right thing posting on here. Sorry if I don't immediately reply to your answers @caledonia
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
  14. telochian

    telochian

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    If you could list out your symptoms and observations in one concise post it would be easier.

    I used to suffer from brain fog, it's a terrible affliction, but seems to come in many forms. How are you at remembering names, directions to places. In addition to the fogginess, do you have memory problems as well? Do you find it hard to multi task or do you need to concentrate very hard to get one thing done before trying to tackle the next? Is the fogginess just mental? ie do you have trouble doing physical things, like going for your walk while mentally focusing on something different?
     
    merylg likes this.
  15. Methhead81

    Methhead81

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    I can remember where places are, not so good with names (this started around 2 years ago). I do struggle to multi task (this wasn't an issue for me prior to 2010) and concentrate on one thing. I don't have issues doing physical things for the most part, but sometimes my reflexes can be impaired. Keep in mind though, these symptoms sometimes go. Like, I am for the most part operating at 20% (now it's more like 10%), but sometimes at random my condition will increase to 40% or 80% (this happened earlier this year just by keeping away from sources of stress, improved to 40% at one point or perhaps a little less, hard to tell). Removing gluten also improved symptoms for a while in September 2014, perhaps less stress on the immune system helped?

    And sorry about that, it's just there is a lot for me to say. I hope @caledonia reads this post as I had a rather terrible episode last night.

    I think I induced methylation while being too low in potassium. I had heart palpitations with skipped beats, muscle twitches and tingling in my hands. May have been from the B6 I ingested (had around 200mg) as well as Zinc and Molybdenum. I think this because while having this episode, I took a few Potassium supplements and the symptoms calmed down quite a bit.

    I woke up feeling slightly better than usual. Not feeling great at all but I think posting here last night helped.

    I know my posts were kinda long, I just hope someone can explain what may be up as I am pretty worried about it right now. Thinking it may be mercury poisoning.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  16. Methhead81

    Methhead81

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    @telochian @caledonia Listing my symptoms and history in a more concise post.

    Symptoms:

    On edge all the time. (In October, this faded at times during candida diet)
    Brain fog (memory, motor skills, focus, tired) (had it on and off prior to 2010, became more frequent after. Had some super intense brain fog while having methylation symptoms recently. This level passes thank god)
    Depression (this fluctuated in severity prior to candida diet, now it's just bad all the time. Went away quite a bit at certain points before I became "depleted")
    Clicky joints (started popping up when 14, got really bad after going on candida diet)
    Frequent sugar cravings (started craving gluten on the candida diet, despite not having gluten cravings prior!)
    Eye floaters (IMPORTANT, these started improving on the candida diet funnily enough)
    Fuzzy vision (this fluctuates quite often, also improved slightly on candida diet)
    Mild light sensitivity (this I can confirm can go away, also reduced when on candida diet)
    Feel depleted (I could induce this state when younger if I stayed up too late)
    Muscle spasms (May be electrolyte related)
    Food sensitivites (really only gluten, other foods are inconsistent, I guess I haven't gotten to that stage quite yet)
    Sleeping issues (got much worse lately, had a few nights in the last two months where I slept like I used to when I was younger and felt weirdly calm)
    Don't have the will to do anything (this got worse after going on the candida diet)
    Some spots and minor rashes on the skin (they have been there for years)
    Sinusitis (started when I was around 12)
    Adrenal exhaustion (had symptoms of it for years, I think I am crashing hard due to cutting out minerals from my diet)
    Issues with taste and smell (This started around 3 years ago, it fluctuates)

    In the past (as recently as 2013), these symptoms on some days could just suddenly disappear. I will link to another forum post which I think may be of interest to you guys. I make a link between what I eat and my symptoms.

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-2013-was-this-methylation.41706/#post-673793

    Right at this moment I am concerned that I may be very low in important vitamins and minerals to continue doing what I Am doing right at this moment. It's hard to absorb all the information and acronyms on this forum. I was so pleased with the response I got from @TheChosenOne and @caledonia and hope they read this. My body can absorb supplements and what it eats still, as evidenced by my symptoms calming down after taking potassium last night.

    I do feel slightly better in terms of brain fog right at this moment, but not by much. Will stop supplements for the time being until I hear from you guys since I don't want to make the problem any worse than it is.

    If you want more detail, read my other posts, I know it was a lot but it explains many things about my symptoms. I will be available all day if you want to PM me about anything as I am probably going to a methylation practitioner in January. Yes, I am super serious about trying to treat this once and for all.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  17. telochian

    telochian

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    I'll leave the mercury/methylation info to people much more experienced than me but I can tell you how I tackled my long standing fight with brain fog.

    Acetylcholine is the neurotransmitter most associated with focus and concentration and as soon as I began supplementing with choline, everything became much clearer for me. Choline isn't talked about much in methylation circles, which surprises me, it is a methyl donor (or so it's said) and is often talked about as a beneficial supplement for "overmethylators". Freddd includes lectithin as a potentially vital co factor in his protocol.

    In my experience, methylation (over driven) wreaks havok on neurotransmitters, I get very fogged out as seratonin floods through my brain and anxious (norepinephrine). I find it hard to do anything, work or otherwise. Gaba based supplements calm me down and choline based supplements make me much more focused, to the point where I can honestly say I no longer suffer from brain fog at all.

    I have read about a relationship between choline, folate and b12 whereby, if one is low, they borrow from your stores of choline to make up for it. I can list out some supplements that have helped me if I'm ok to do that on this forum, I will however caution that too much choline can cause depression and irritability (for a day) and the balance can take time to define. The good news is, if you are low on acetylcholine, supplementing extra choline will tell you instantly if it's what your brain needs.
     
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  18. Methhead81

    Methhead81

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    That's useful to know, thanks.

    For the time being, like I said in my last post, I am going to take it easy with supplements for a little while. I don't want to make this problem worse or any more dire than it already is.

    You can PM the link though (but I would prefer you post it here because other sufferers may need to know), perhaps I may give it a try (unless I want a genetic test from 23andme, my budget is tight as I am not really having help from my parents on this, aside from being given money). @caledonia 's methylation guide says I have to do this.

    Until then, my main interest is for someone to analyse my symptoms as I would be interested in what the science minded people on this forum have to say.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  19. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne Senior Member

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    That's way too high to start with :eek:

    I use phosphatidylcholine instead of choline. It is a more active form. It also saves SAMe and I think it is an excellent way to increase methylation without directly taking methyl donors.
    You cannot chelate mercury by improving methylation alone, although I suggest to improve methylation first before starting with chelation. If I remember it correctly, Cutler disagrees on this. He doesn't believe that methylation has to be improved in order to do chelation. I did chelation without addressing methylation and it is extremely tiring. If you don't have a (stressful) job, you might try chelation right away. I haven't restarted chelation yet, because I'm waiting to do some further testing.
    There are people on this forum that used other ways to get rid of mercury, but I'm not familiar with them, so you'll have to search around a bit.

    I'd also quit the 'candida diet', especially during chelation, because you will stress your body unnecessary.

    I did an essential mineral hair test to figure out whether I have mercury poisoning. A blood test won't help you.
     
  20. Methhead81

    Methhead81

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    The hTMA ARL test found elevated levels of aluminium. Mercury and all that was low, indicating poor elimination. Cooper was too high.

    I don't have a job right now, which is why I am trying to sort this out before it gets any worse. Wasn't there a urine test that can show heavy metals?

    The methylation practitoner I found nearby does tests with 23andme. May save some money for other tests (Nutreval test is super expensive though).

    And what's SAMe?

    ARL results:

    Calcium 121.0
    Magnesium 4.0
    Sodium 7.0
    Potassium 6.0
    Iron 1.2
    Copper 19.6
    Manganese 0.010
    Zinc 15.0
    Chromium 0.067
    Selenium 0.055
    Phosphorus 16.0

    Lead 0.017
    Mercury 0.024
    Cadmium 0.001
    Arsenic 0.015
    Aluminum 1.17

    Nickel 0.011
    Cobalt 0.001
    Molybdenum 0.003
    Lithium 0.001
    Boron N/A
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015

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