1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
ME/CFS and the Magic of the Canine Factor
There's been plenty of research indicating that having pets is good for your health. I never really noticed any particular benefits to having cats, though that may have had more to do with my cats. They've been fairly indifferent to my presence and we've shared a live-and-let-live...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Improving Using Rife and MMS for Lyme

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by Wayne, Jul 23, 2011.

  1. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

    Messages:
    2,400
    Likes:
    2,848
    Couchland, USA
    MMS was a disaster for me. Everyone is different, but I just wanted to say, the stuff is really really strong, and even when titrating up very slowly, which I did, it was so bad I never reached the target dose and had to give up.
    It screwed up my digestion horribly, and made me as sick and weak a chemo patient. I think if you don't detox well (which I do not) it's too strong/quick-acting. Unless you can seriously and rigorously support detox (which I did, it's just that the ol' bod couldn't keep up) this treatment can make you way sicker.

    It's not till this year I did the panel Rich Vank recommends and determined I do indeed have glutathione depletion/partial methylation block. This, combined with some other things, cause me to, for instance, vomit violently for hours after so much as a sauna. (Needless to say, I don't do saunas any more!) So just a warning to the poor detoxers on this thread--use care when considering this approach. You'll want to be sure you have systems in place for lymph and liver support, glutathione production/supplementation, ensuring good elimination etc. Otherwise you risk total toxic overload, which is not pretty.
  2. markmc20001

    markmc20001 Guest

    Messages:
    877
    Likes:
    80
  3. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

    Messages:
    2,400
    Likes:
    2,848
    Couchland, USA
    That's a shame about the FDA because if I were going to someplace that had malaria, I would want to have a bottle of this with me for sure.
  4. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,201
    Likes:
    1,306
    Ashland, Oregon
    Acupuncture - A Tale of Two Days

    Cautionary note: Another fairly long post.

    Thanks Leela for your comments; I couldnt agree more regarding the need to be extremely cautious when using MMS. I started out at 1/3 drop every other day, and it took me a while from there before I could consider doing more. I did get some very positive results, but I quit taking it after I no longer felt it best to continue. Ive started and stopped about three times now.

    The most recent time was about three weeks ago, the same time I also temporarily stopped doing the Rife frequencies. I quit because I was becoming concerned by some really significant and difficult neurological problems I was experiencing. My cognitive function worsened; my vertigo and Orthostatic Intolerance (OI) worsened; the synaptic function in my brain felt like it was going haywire; my sleep was more disturbed; and more. I thought most of these symptoms were a result of the Lyme bacteria dieoff and subsequent release of neurotoxins, but Im not so sure now, based on my experiences (below), that that was the entire story.

    These difficult neurological symptoms reminded me of the documentary Under Our Skin where a woman with Lyme began antibiotic treatment, and it reached a point where she was having seizures or seizure-like symptoms. I dont feel I reached that point, but I did have to wonder how close I might be coming to what might technically be seizure activity.

    Anyway, I've felt like I've been in sort of a holding pattern for the past three weeks or so since I wrote my last fairly long (and perhaps convoluted) post about some of these difficulties. It felt like I was stuck and didnt look like I was going to break out any time soon. So I began to be extra vigilant for something that might help me break through this down cycle.

    This something presented itself this past week, when I drove by a sign I had not seen before; acupuncture for $15. I went in, discussed my situation, and made an appointment for Wednesday (two days ago). We did a number of points, and I was on the table for about 30 minutes. It felt somewhat difficult for me to integrate some of the energy shifts, but I felt I did so fairly well by the time I reached the last five minutes.

    That night (Wednesday), I actually looked forward to going to sleep, something thats not usually the case as it's often not easy for me to do. It just generally takes a lot of work to get my system calmed down enough to sleep. I felt fairly confident I would have a better than normal sleep; I had had a better than normal evening.

    Well, I woke up around 2:30, and realized I was not going to get back to sleep. I got up after only 4 hours sleep, and started my normal morning stuff, feeling fairly normal. As the day wore on however, I began to feel worse and worse, experiencing horrible anxiety, depression, balance problems, and more. The other neurological problems that had been bothering me all became much worse as well.

    By Thursday evening, a dull headache that had been building, became much worse than normal, and I began to experience what felt like shooting pains going through my brain. In a bit of desperation, I took a tylenol 3 (which has a bit of codeine) and hoped for the best.

    It helped; I was able to sleep nine hours, and I woke Friday morning (today) feeling more calmed down than I have during the last three weeks. As I got started on my day, I quickly noticed that the major neurological symptoms I had been experiencing for the past three weeks were way better. And I noticed my physical energy was better as well.

    I went in for another acupuncture session this afternoon (Friday). This time I very quickly began to integrate the energy shifts, and was able to go into a deep relaxation. I was told some of the wirey energy he noticed in my pulses had definitely smooth out, and my heart and lung pulses were much stronger.

    An interesting thing about my kidney pulses: He told me they were much stronger than the average person (he said he wished his were as strong). When I asked him today if this meant my adrenal function was probably very strong as well, he said it did (from an oriental perspective).

    It wasnt until then I realized that I had almost forgotten to take my noon dose of Cortef (bio-identical cortisol), and then decided to take a slightly lesser amount than normal. I then was late on my afternoon dose, even wondering whether I should skip it altogether. I suspect my adrenal insufficiency is a result of my HPA dysfunction (which I had always felt was likely, and which the acupuncture may already be affecting), and not related to weakness in my kidneys and adrenals.

    A point to make: There are so many reports of people trying various therapies and failing (as Joey pointed out earlier, many doing Rife often fail to improve their Lyme condition). Im of the strong belief that a reason for a lot of these failures is because supportive therapies that may be critical are not done at the same time.

    Based on past experience, I think I could easily have been stuck in this recent down cycle for a long time, but feel Im now pulling out of it in an encouragingly strong way (at this time). I hope it continues; theres never any guarantees. One thing I'm encouraged by is how I was able to go from an absolutely miserable situation to a much stronger one in a relatively short period of time (roughly 24 hours). It seems to reflect what the acupuncturist told me; that I have a good amount of "chi" to work with.

    This recent experience is more confirming of something Ive long suspected; a big part of my health problems have to do with a disruption of my electrical system (perhaps somewhat analogous to what Cheney has described as ME patients "blowing a fuse"). Addressing this with acupuncture feels like it may have a lot of benefit for me, so I plan to continue doing these treatments 2x/week for a while. At $15 per session, I feel fortunate to have made this discovery.

    Best to All, Wayne
  5. liquid sky

    liquid sky Senior Member

    Messages:
    354
    Likes:
    166
    Wow, that's a really good price on the acupuncture. Have you done antibiotics for your Lyme? I just wondered if you reacted similarly to those as you are to the Rife treatments? I've tried antibiotics and reacted much like you describe, except the pains were both in my head and spine. Became intolerable.

    Never tried MMS or Rife treatments. Tried acupuncture. It was relaxing(sometimes), but no long term results for me. Kinda like massage or cranial-sacral therapy. It's all such a mixed bag, but definitely feel there is a piece of the puzzle missing. Maybe a retrovirus?

    Glad you are feeling better and good luck with the acupuncture.
  6. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,201
    Likes:
    1,306
    Ashland, Oregon
    Restarting Rife After A Month Break

    I've got a few minutes before heading to another acupuncture session. Wanted to mention that I did stay stabilized after my last acupuncture session, and never returned to the intense neurological symptoms which led me to stop both the Rife frequencies and the MMS almost a month ago.

    Last night however, was about the third night in a row of sub-standard sleep. This often happens during the full moon; I suspect because the full moon affects Lyme bacteria cycles in my body. Given how rotten I woke up feeling this morning (mostly nausea; not so much neurological), I decided to venture back to the Rife frequencies.

    Well, they immediately put me to sleep, and since waking about three hours ago, have been feeling better and better. Feels like I'm tuning back into my old cycle of feeling immediately better, and hopefully I'll have a better than average day tomorrow. It already feels like I'm starting to get a little "mojo" back, as I look forward to resuming more frequent Rife sessions.

    I'm now wondering about a number of things: 1) was my onset of severe neurological symptoms a month ago a chronic, stubborn herx reaction that wouldn't go away, or could it have been a result of some sort of neurological shock to my body so that it couldn't reset and reharmonize? 2) Was this shock caused by either the Rife frequencies or MMS, or could it possibly have been some outside shock, such as an increase in mold or allergens in the air? 3) Were the acupuncture treatments harmonizing my neurological system, or did it possibly increase my detoxification capabilities to better handle the herx reaction?

    Most likely I'll never know for sure, but this feels like a valuable learning experience. I'll probably be less inclined in the future to completely cease my Rife and MMS therapies, and instead look for alternatives to any immediate new set of symptoms.

    Best, Wayne
  7. Marg

    Marg Senior Member

    Messages:
    343
    Likes:
    53
    Wetumpka Alabama
    Hi Wayne,

    Thank you for the informative post.

    I am doing well with the FIR sauna, I was surprised. I worked up slowly and now do 40 minutes at 130, 3 times a week after 10 minutes on the power plate to get the lympth moving can you believe it? I do the power plate fist to get the lumpth moving, then the CVAV for 20 minutes and end with the sauna. I do this 3 times a week most weeks. A regular steam sauna always made be sick even before I had any idea of being sick so I did not think I could do it. I love it. It is all a full time job, that is for sure. You gave me the courage to try the FIR.

    I tried the Rife when I was sick the first time. A naturopath that I went to had her own. I did not see much difference so I stopped. I also tried that zapper thing that is he same idea but just one frequency. That made me sicker than I already was and it started frightening me so I gave it up. My naturopath said that it killed the pathogens too quickly. She was also a colonic therapist and that fixed me up. She used implants and coffee ending with replacing minerals. The implants would be what she thought needed work. She always used coffee in one part and a blood purifier. She was one of the best in the world and only 60 miles from me. She was in "Who's Who in Alterative Medicine" and Woman of the year twice.

    We became good friends and I would stay for lunch and we would talk, learned a lot from her. Sadly she has died..congestive heart failure. She was so busy taking care of others that she was not taking proper care of herself. She never let on she was sick to me until two weeks before she died. I am still in shock and it has been 5 years.

    Keep us posted on your progress, I had a woman asking me about the Rife today. Her daughter and grandson's have a terrible mold problem, have you heard anything about Rife and mold?

    Marg
  8. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,201
    Likes:
    1,306
    Ashland, Oregon
    Hi Marg,
    Congratulations on your success with the FIR sauna. :victory: It's always nice to discover we have the stamina to do certain therapies that would appear to be good for us. It took me a pretty long while (many months) to be able to tolerate FIR saunas to the point where I didn't feel I had to "recover" after each one.

    The problem with Rife and/or zapper machines is determining whether a reaction is a herx or not (and thus hopefully helpful), or whether it's something to be concerned about to the point of discontinuing. We're kind of on our own with these kinds of frequency generators, which is why I'm taking the time to detail some of my own experiences.

    My acupuncturist told me he grew up on the beaches of Florida, and developed numerous cancerous moles when he was about 12 years old. They didn't have any money to go to a doctor, but they heard about an inexpensive zapper type of machine (that had only one frequency). Lo and behold, this zapper not only completely cleared up his bleeding cancerous moles, but it cleared up every single freckle on his body!

    I just checked my Rife frequency manual, and it does list a number of frequencies for mold and fungi. So I would guess that Rife frequencies could be helpful. I would assume that the external environment needs to be thoroughly addressed as well.

    Best, Wayne
  9. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,201
    Likes:
    1,306
    Ashland, Oregon
    I haven't done any Rife sessions since I last posted on Sept. 9, as I've been dealing with different types of major stresses recently (dental visit; long traveling trip; and more). My resilience has felt so low, I just didn't want to add any kind of herx reaction to what I'm already dealing with.

    But I felt so utterly miserable this morning (mostly neurological), that I decided to do at least a 2 minute per frequency session instead of my normal 4 minutes per frequency. I went to sleep during the session, and slept for two hours! And I've been feeling much better since waking.

    This again has me wondering about a number of things. I talked to a guy on the phone a few years ago who was selling some kind of electrical gizmo for certain health benefits. I told him how I generally seem to feel improvements with whatever kind of electrical device I used, whether it was ionic foot baths, Rife, or whatever. He sort of matter of factly stated that was because everybody with CFS is depleted of bio-electrical energy, and any device that restores that to any degree is going to be helpful.

    After I felt so much better upon awakening a couple hours ago, I've been wondering about this. Am I feeling better because I killed off some Lyme bacteria, or is it because I may have restored some bio-electrical energy to my body? I think of this in light of what it says in my Rife manual; that most people experience a "relaxation" upon first sitting down to do a Rife session. And this seems to apply to all the many and varied frequencies that can be used for different conditions.

    Anyway, this session this morning has given me new insights which will make me less fearful of potential herx reactions at a time when I'm really struggling. In fact, it appears that a shortened version can be especially helpful during these times.

    Best, Wayne
  10. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

    Messages:
    2,400
    Likes:
    2,848
    Couchland, USA
    Thanks for the update, Wayne.
    Your thoughts and comments are always useful to me.
  11. globalpilot

    globalpilot Senior Member

    Messages:
    592
    Likes:
    209
    Ontario
    This may be a long shot but is it possible the RIFE frequencies are interfering with pain messages being sent to the brain, therefore, interupting the infammatory process allowing you to feel better ?

  12. lisann

    lisann

    Messages:
    16
    Likes:
    0
    hi Wayne -
    I'm just now catching up on your posts ... the past few months I've had WAY more stuff to do than I can possibly manage, so anything not absolutely required falls off the list, I'm sure you all know what I mean. (Honestly at this point in my life/illness I would personally put this research at the TOP of that list - unfortunately life demands otherwise right now)

    First of all, again, thank you so much for posting your experiences in such detail! I know how much energy that takes and I want you to know how seriously valuable all your posts and info have been for me.

    Like I said I've had to be away for a while - and it looks like you have too. (At least on this thread) I'm really hoping that your treatments are continuing to work for you and your absence is not due to relapse!

    I also started acupuncture, about 4 weeks ago, and I've almost always felt somewhat better for at least the rest of that day.

    I'm curious about the "zapper" referred to, what your acupuncturist used for his skin cancer .... does "zapper" always refer only to the Rife frequency device? There's also the Bob Beck electro-medicine device which I've heard called a "zapper" as well, so I wanted to be sure what you're referring to.

    Again I sincerely hope you're doing well, and I look forward to your next update...

    Take care, Lisa
  13. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

    Messages:
    4,038
    Likes:
    882
    Concord, NH
    Perhaps I missed it further in this thread, but I hit your original link and I thought the price was about 4500! But here you state 1800, will have to reivew this at another time to determine why the price difference!

    GG
  14. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,201
    Likes:
    1,306
    Ashland, Oregon
    GB 4000 with Plasma Tubes is Costlier

    Hi GG,

    The base model of the GB 4000 is $1825. This model can be upgraded with "plasma tubes" which apparently greatly increases the frequency strength that is administered to the body. My understanding is that it can also apparently reach into areas that are not necessarily effected by using the "contact" model (as with hands on metal cylinders) only.

    The upgraded version with plasma tubes costs around $4,500. One of the reasons I went with the GB4000 was because I'm pretty certain it's the only model that can be upgraded in this manner. If I had gone with a plasma tube model, whether GB4000 or some other model, my initial investment would have been much higher.

    My experience with the base model is that it's plenty strong enough to induce a Lyme bacteria dieoff and subsequent herx reaction. And I wouldn't want to be increasing the intensity of this any time soon.

    I hope this helps.

    Wayne
  15. Mercy

    Mercy

    Messages:
    22
    Likes:
    3
    Hi Wayne,
    I have been reading through your various Rife posts and I am wondering if you would mind giving us an update on your Rife therapy. Do you feel overall that you have experienced an improvement because of Rife? I have been using antibiotics and herbs for Lyme for almost two years, with little to no success, and am trying to decide whether to add Rife or some other protocol.
    Thanks,
    Mercy
  16. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,201
    Likes:
    1,306
    Ashland, Oregon
    Getting Ready to Resume Rife Sessions

    Hi Mercy,

    Thanks for your post (which I didn't see until just this morning). I've been mostly focused on homeopathy for Lyme the past couple of months, and had set the Rife sessions aside during this time. I just made the following post this morning:

    Returning to Rife - Lymephotos.com

    I do feel I made a bit of progress with the Rife, and feel I've now made a bit more with the homeopathy. I'm discontinuing the homeopathy for now however, and plan to focus on the Rife sessions again.

    I'm also planning to address some of the parasitic infections I may have that can accompany Lyme. I think some people believe you can't have Lyme without the accompanying parasites.

    Let me know if you have any other questions.

    Wayne
  17. pine108kell

    pine108kell Senior Member

    Messages:
    140
    Likes:
    26
    Although this question was not directed at me, I did at least 100 rife sessions. Always had herx type reaction but never got much better. I think benefits of rife our overstated, as most treatments for lyme are. There have been a few stories though....
  18. Mercy

    Mercy

    Messages:
    22
    Likes:
    3
    Hi Wayne,
    Thanks for the response. I don't have any more questions at the moment but I may in the future. My head is spinning with all of the possible treatments for Lyme. Right now I am leaning towards adding either the full Cowden protocol or the Buhner protocol while remaining on antibiotics. I remember that you said you didn't want to use ABX, so I am providing a link to some research by Eva Sapi on Samento and Banderol, its effectiveness against biofilms, cyst and spirochetal forms. Hope this helps. http://www.lymebook.com/nutramedix-samento-banderol-study.pdf
    Mercy
  19. Mercy

    Mercy

    Messages:
    22
    Likes:
    3
    I appreciate any input. Like every other lyme treatment, the responses seem to be higly variable, with some people finding great benefit and others none at all. What machine did you use?
    Mercy
  20. pine108kell

    pine108kell Senior Member

    Messages:
    140
    Likes:
    26
    I don't remember--it is the ancestor of the machine called GB4000. It is sometimes hard to tell, but I am pretty unresponsive to every treatment in the long term. By unresponsive I mean that I do not seem to get obviously better anymore although I do have the herx type responses to anything that is antibacterial, including rife.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page