1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
The ePatient Revolution
Ryan Prior shares his experience and his thoughts from attending the Stanford Medicine X Conference as he contemplates the rising of the ePatient Revolution ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Improving Using Rife and MMS for Lyme

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by Wayne, Jul 23, 2011.

  1. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,221
    Likes:
    1,371
    Ashland, Oregon
    Sweep Function on the GB4000

    Joey, one of the reasons I chose the GB4000 (there were several reasons) was something on it called the "sweep function". My best understanding at the time (and it's still the same as I've not yet learned how to use it), is that you can have the frequencies you choose to run sweep somewhat above and somewhat below the actual frequency.

    The goal I believe is to address exactly what you're mentioning above, killing pathogens that may not be identified and do not have a known frequency that can kill it. One of the GB4000 persons I talked with on the phone mentioned the sweep function used with a group of cancer frequencies was especially helpful for some. She said they were receiving reports of cancer patients actually feeling their tumors "vibrate" while doing the Rife session. This was followed up by reduced pain and shrinkage of tumors, sometimes as soon as the next day.

    I'm sure these types of reports would strike some in conventional medicine as heresy. But I'm assuming those that would aren't hanging out in the alternative therapies forum on a ME/CFS site, so I feel fairly safe in passing this along. ;)

    Wayne
     
  2. mojoey

    mojoey Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,097
    Likes:
    59
    Hey Wayne,

    Thanks for all that good info. I think that gives people a lot to think about. You've tried so many things and have documented them in such detail (and given each therapy so much thought) that your testimonial carries a lot of weight in my mind.

    (TBIs stands for tick borne infections)

    My thinking is that baseline inflammation is directly tied with detoxification. Until the inflammation is addressed, the body probably won't detoxify with much efficiency. On your list of 12 detoxification techniques, I tried everything besides #1, 11, and 12. #1 is probably a wash because I took Klinghardt's green clay and actually did ionic footbaths. Based on my own experiences with kefir, I don't think that would've helped my inflammation much at the time. It has helped my leaky gut, no doubt, but the type of inflammation I was dealing with back in 2008-2009 was most likely biotoxin-induced. My c4a was in the 20,000+ range (the last time I checked it was under 3000)

    When my c4a was that high, it didn't matter what I did--nothing helped and most things made me worse. I was doing intense detoxification with all those things you listed and more, and I was also doing very precise frequency treatments using a modality from Germany that causes far less die-off than Rifing (you probably know which one I'm talking about). I ended up par for the course.

    I'm thinking that your ability to detox says a lot about your level of inflammation, so I would keep it in mind (since it can flip on and off on a whim for us,seemingly) but it doesn't seem like a huge concern for you at this point.
     
  3. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,221
    Likes:
    1,371
    Ashland, Oregon
    MMS - Salt C - "Broad Spectrum" Therapy

    Hi Madie,

    You identified the advantages of MMS exactly how I see it, and what Joey alluded to in his post. While I look at the Rife frequencies as my principal modality at this time, I don't believe I can rely on it solely to achieve the best results for myself. That's why I will be gradually branching out into other modalities after I get familiar with and grounded in the Rife and MMS.

    As I mentioned earlier, a Salt C protocol appears to be next on my agenda. Like the MMS, I look at it as sort of a "broad spectrum" therapy, whereas the Rife frequencies are much more specific. I assume as I go along, I'll be able to better tune into which Rife frequencies are more applicable to me than others.

    I'm amazed to read how different pwLyme learn to identify when various Lyme bacteria are becoming active and/or are dieing off, such as bartonella, babesia, etc. I suspect I'll get there eventually. I think when I do, I'll be able to use my Rife machine even more effectively.

    Wayne
     
  4. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,221
    Likes:
    1,371
    Ashland, Oregon
    Rife Didn't Work - Kefir Notes

    Hi Jenbooks, just goes to show how a therapy that can work so well for some of us does not work at all for others. That's why I'm so grateful when I finally find something that works. I've estimated I've tried at least a thousand things for myself over the past 30+ years, and found only about 10% to have much effectiveness at all. Of that 10%, I'd say only about another 10% were effective and/or cost effective enough to continue using. It feels like my settling into this Rife and MMS protocol is a bit of a culmination of a long and arduous process.

    Thanks for your warm hearted and "amusing" words. And don't worry about getting all mystical on me, I love it. So if you have any more mystical adjectives to pass along, do feel free! ;)

    I'm happy to hear you're able to make delicious kefir out of reconstituted goat milk. That's really good to know. You mentioned in your PM to me that the kefir grains were growing fast, and weren't sure what to do with them. If you make smoothies with the kefir, which many people do, you can add the grains to your blended smoothie drink.

    Also, you may want to experiment and see how much kefir your body really would like. I put no limitations on my own intake, and have seen myself go in various cycles, sometimes wanting more, sometimes less. Currently, I'm eating a mostly liquid diet plus watermelon during the day, and eat a small amount of food in the evening. It felt like sort of a partial fast for a while, but is feeling more and more like normal. I deal much less with "eating hangover" with this diet, and feel it's very complementary with my Rife and MMS protocol.

    Wayne
     
  5. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,221
    Likes:
    1,371
    Ashland, Oregon
    Advantages of Combining Rife with MMS

    Hi again Madie,

    I experimented with MMS about three years ago, and was able to achieve a certain amount of benefit from using it. I eventually realized it was not going to be the only and/or final answer for my health issues. (At that time I only strongly suspected I had Lyme). When I started doing the Rife frequencies, I could tell immediately that it had a different kind of effect on my body than the MMS. I could tell the Rife was beneficial, but I got a sense it might be too "restrictive" or limited for my situation. I pretty quickly learned how much Rife I could do at a given time, and wondered whether MMS could help me do more at the same time without overloading my system.

    I quickly learned that it could. My best take now is MMS is impacting other types of pathogens in my body that are not being affected by the Rife therapies. So I feel I'm getting a certain amount of Lyme dieoff from the Rife, plus other unknown types of dieoff from the MMS as well (perhaps even including some form of Lyme bacteria, such as the cyst form). Plus, I think it's highly likely the MMS is gradually dissolving some of the biofilms that Lyme bacteria create as a protective nest to hide out in. And Im able to do this all at a rate that I dont feel is overwhelming my system. At this time its hard to put a percentage on what therapeutic benefit each is giving me, but if I were to make a guess, I would venture about 2/3 of my benefits are from Rife, and about 1/3 from MMS.

    I earlier (in 2008) phased out of using MMS because I was away from home a fair amount, and it wasn't easy to keep up with it. Also, I did have some concerns about some of the drawbacks and/or potential dangers of using it for a long duration at a time. One of these potential drawbacks was the same as the potential drawbacks of using antibiotics; killing off friendly bacteria in the body.

    I now feel Im effectively addressing this by having kefir be such a dominant staple in my diet, which apparently contains over 30 different kinds of probiotic bacteria. Ive been drinking it for over a year now, and feel these bacteria have populated my GI tract very thoroughly. When I take the MMS now, it feels like the friendly bacteria dieoff that may have occurred three years is no longer a factor for me. MMS only stays in the body for two hours after ingestion, and I drink the fermented kefir and whey throughout the day. I usually eat a bit of kefir cheese at night along with other solid food items. It may not sound very exciting or varied, but I actually finding it very palatable and satisfying.

    Wayne
     
  6. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,221
    Likes:
    1,371
    Ashland, Oregon
    Cautionary Notes on MMS

    Hi again Madie,

    A couple more thoughts on some potential dangers of using MMS. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I believe the MMS is dissolving some of the biofilms in my body that Lyme bacteria hide out in. Critics of MMS often call MMS something like "an industrial grade solvent". The chlorine dioxide that is essentially MMS, is used industrially. I'm aware that it's used to break up and dissolve biofilms that are often seen in swimming pools, and other places. There are probably other uses as well.

    The fairly minute amounts that are recommended therapeutically are not a concern for me at this time. What should be kept in mind however, is that if anybody does have any kind of biofilm situation in their body (whether caused by Lyme or some other bacteria), then it can be dissolved, and perhaps fairly quickly. Since the biofilm is created using certain metal canions (I know this is not entirely accurate either scientifically or spelling wise, but I think it's fairly close), it will often glom onto any mercury that enters the body, and use it as a key ingredient in its makeup. If this biofilm gets dissolved too rapidly, it can quickly release large amounts of mercury, and overwhelm the body's detoxification system, which is often compromised in people with Lyme and/or ME/CFS.

    A couple of reports I remembered while I was just on my walk that I feel I should pass along: I've seen several reports of MMS being incredibly effective in difficult to treat GI issues, such as Chron's Disease. But I did read one report, where a person's GI issues actually worsened, and stay that way for months afterwards. My best guess is that the MMS may have killed whatever beneficial bacteria was left in their gut, and so had even less of a defense against whatever pathogenic bacteria that stayed in tact. Just a guess, but this kind of thing should be kept in mind.

    I also read a report which illustrates the plaque dissolving capabilities of MMS. Apparently, if a weakness shows up in heart arteries (or elsewhere), the body will lay down a layer of plaque to temporarily strengthen that area of the artery. If the body doesn't repair that artery after the plaque is laid down, then a quick removal or dissolving of the plaque can cause a problem.

    I read another report of MMS causing "intracellular heat", or something like that. I don't know that much about it, but is something I will be keeping an eye out for more information on. At first glance, it does seem like it would be something to be aware of and cautious about. But it could also be one of the attributes that makes it effective against such a wide array of pathogens. I have enough experience with MMS at this point to not have it be an overwhelming concern, at least for now.

    For perspective, I look at prescription drug medications in this country that are estimated to cause approximately 100,000 to 200,000 deaths per year, when used as prescribed. I've never heard of anybody dieing from MMS, although I guess it's possible, especially if they weren't using the recommended therapeutic doses.

    So I believe MMS, as with anything (including Rife frequencies) should always be used with caution, and with a high degree of discernment. Unfortunately, there's no definitive road map for us to follow to get well, whether conventional or alternative. So we have to improvise with what our current situation offers, which includes varying degrees of financial ability, health insurance coverage, resources of a good doctor, support of friends, relatives, etc. We're all in such unique situations. My own situation tells me the risk/reward ratio of using Rife and MMS together is a good one for me, and so far it has proven to be so. But I will be the first to say it's not for everybody.

    Wayne

    ETA Much of what I wrote in this post is an overview perspective. I'm not making the effort, or claiming to be 100% accurate on some of the descriptions I made on a number of points.
     
  7. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes:
    951
    Concord, NH
    Hello MoJoey, how did you get your c4a levels down so much? I have been doing CSM for months now and had blood work done a week ago, so will find out in a month or so, next appt, on how my levels have come down. I am also doing ALA, prescription Fish Oil (3 grams/day) and LDN.

    GG
     
  8. mojoey

    mojoey Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,097
    Likes:
    59
    Hey GG,

    This probably won't be a palatable answer, but the only thing I did was move out of my parents' house.
     
  9. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

    Messages:
    950
    Likes:
    91
    Sorry this OT, but GG how is it you can tolerate CSM? That stuff kills me. Do you take things to offset it .. like fish oil.. do you take it on a schedulre?
    Thanks
     
  10. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes:
    951
    Concord, NH
    Not sure I know the exact answer, I guess some would say I am mildly affected. I work in a lab with chemicals around me, so it seems I have a high tolerance for some things, except very strenuous exercise. Yes, I take CSM 2x/day, about 6 grams per dosing.

    GG
     
  11. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,221
    Likes:
    1,371
    Ashland, Oregon
    Deciphering Lyme Treatment Experiences

    Hi All,

    Im sort of out of it at the moment, but thought I would try a post anyway. Sometimes just doing something like writing helps me pull out of certain kinds of stupors....... Ive been going through sort of a personal odyssey for the past three days or so and am trying to decipher some of the things that are happening. It all fits in with my Rife and MMS treatment, and so am hoping writing will help me sort some of it out.

    On Sunday morning, I felt up for trying to get a little more accomplished around the house (I feel a beneficial result from doing a Rife session a day earlier). This time I decided to tackle the back porch; cleaning, organizing, making decisions about what to keep and what to toss, etc. I slowly and methodically went at it for about five hours total. All in all, it was encouraging. I felt good for the most part, but then theres the price....

    On the rare occasions when Ive done as much as that, a pretty severe headache will set in, and my sleep will be quite disrupted that night. The good news was that the headache didnt set in to nearly the degree Ive come to expect, and was able to work it out in the morning. However, I was only able to sleep about 5-6 hours. This would have been a good amount for me in times past, but Im more used to 8+ these days.

    Getting up early allowed me to go outside during some cool temperatures, and I decided to start going through a very large pile of organic trash (blackberry bushes, and much more) that had been sitting around for months. Again, I did pretty well, working on it for about an hour. I noticed during this time that I had a small but very itchy skin outbreak on one of my ankles; a sure sign I had a fair amount of toxicity in my system.

    I did my normal Rife session on Monday (every other day), and then followed up with a sauna. It all went well, and I slept a little better last night, but still only got about 6 hours of sleep. What Im trying to decipher at this time is the unusual amount of jumpiness Im feeling the past couple of days in my brain. Instead of feeling a normal rhythm with my thinking (which is generally disrupted anyway), I noticed it was more jumpier than normal.

    I began to wonder if it was because my Rife and MMS treatment was improving my physical capabilities, allowing me to do more, but was not necessarily improving the neurological issues Ive struggled with for so long at a similar rate. Was my increased exercise, while tolerable physically, perhaps aggravating my neurological system that is not able to integrate it all at this time? The other thought I had was whether the skin rash that arose during this time was producing a toxicity that was impacting and worsening my neurological symptoms. A period of pretty intense nausea this morning for a couple hours also lends credence toward the toxicity element. But I still havent quite figured it out; Im leaning more toward the increased exercise as the likely explanation.

    Either way, this is making me think the improvements in my health are manifesting more quickly in my physical energy and capabilities, and will likely take longer to manifest in other areas, such as my neurological system, endocrine system, etc. Thinking about this brought back a memory of something I had read a long time ago by Richard Schultze (herbalist), who said the best way to regenerate the neurological system is by taking large quantities of St. Johns Wort. Since it grows wild around here, and Ive made some large batches of tincture, Im going to get restarted on this protocol. Ive shared this tincture with many others, and have gotten back reports of improvements in sleep, depression, anxiety, etc. Perhaps this will help out my current jumpy brain, and allow my neurological system to somewhat catch up with some of my other improvements.

    This is touching on the topic of why many with Lyme disease fail with treatment (whether Rife, antibiotics, or others). One of the reasons I think people fail is theres likely been a certain amount of damage the Lyme bacteria have inflicted on different parts of the body over a number of years. If adjunctive therapies arent used to specifically address some of this damage, then I think the probability of success goes down.

    In my case, it seems my brain and neurological system have been most affected by my chronic Lyme infections. Im guessing this may be the case with many (if not most) other pwLyme. I dont know if I shared earlier, but researchers who work with Lyme spirochetes, and who need an optimal way to store them to maintain their viability, have discovered that storage works best in dead rats brains. The Lyme bacteria just seem to have a certain affinity for neurological tissue. It was actually a bit unnerving to hear this factoid, but knowing this does give me a little more information to work with.

    As I mentioned earlier, I feel a bit out of it at the moment; and it feels like Im sharing a conversation here that has been taking place between my brain, my body, and my neurological system. Im hoping this is intelligible enough to read, and theres something worthwhile for others to consider. Perhaps something to consider is whether pwCFS who have especially pronounced cognitive dysfunction and neurological symptoms are somewhat more likely to be dealing with Lyme than those who don't struggle as much with these types of symptoms. Just a thought.

    Best, Wayne
     
  12. markmc20001

    markmc20001 Guest

    Messages:
    877
    Likes:
    80
    Hey Wayne.

    You mentioned before using clay foots baths to help you with the computer or something if I remember correctly?

    Do you have EMF sensitivites out of curiosity?

    I think I might have lyme and am very sensitive to the computer and other electrical devices.

    Is it possible the EMF's do kind of the reverse of the RIFE treatment? Kind of like I'm getting the wrong wavelength or something from the EMF'S? Maybe it doesn't make any sense, but it just seems electricity does affect me for sure.

    Haven't tried the rife, but am getting interested from your posts.

    Mark
     
  13. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,221
    Likes:
    1,371
    Ashland, Oregon
    EMFs

    Hi Mark,

    I do clay foot baths primarily for detoxification purposes, although there's something about them that feels very grounding, apart from the detox going on. I do have significant sensitivities to EMFs, and have been using a couple of "earthing" products to help mitigate this. I use a grounding pad under my laptop computer, and have noticed about a 90% improvement. I used to get nauseous and headachy within minutes of getting on a computer; I can now sometimes go for extended periods without these symptoms.

    I don't think I would categorize EMFs as being the opposite of Rife frequencies. But I have heard that certain molds can multiply at rates up to 100x faster when exposed to various kinds of EMFs. It makes sense to me that various pathogens in our body, whether candida, bacteria, etc. could be affected as well. I suspect there's more than one reason many of us are especially susceptible to EMFs.

    If you're interested in Rife machines, I would suggest calling some distributors that are out there, and ask a few questions. I found my telephone inquiries to be quite interesting; each distributor has their own story, and seemed most willing to take the time to answer a number of questions. I say go for it. Take it one step at a time; this is a big investment, you would want to be sure you're making the right choice, although the machine I purchased had a 30-day money back guarantee.

    Best, Wayne
     
  14. markmc20001

    markmc20001 Guest

    Messages:
    877
    Likes:
    80
    I get headaches, spaciness, and nausea from the computer. Maybe I'll try a grounding pad. That would be a big help.

    You mind if I ask where you got the grounding pad? I tried one of those "Lessemf.com" baseball caps for emf protection and couldn't feel a thing.
     
  15. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,483
    Likes:
    1,741
    East Coast, USA
    Wayne, could I ask a sideways question? I've just gotten some GI labs back, and I have gargantuan candida and a slew of bacterial overgrowths. Does the RIFE machine target any of this?

    Madie
     
  16. sphynx on roundabouts

    sphynx on roundabouts

    Messages:
    68
    Likes:
    5
    Hi Wayne,
    im very interested in your thread and grateful to you for sharing your experience. Im thinking of very slowly trying mms and cant find good information on probiotics and mms. Canthey be taken in the same day? Im nervous of the blanket attack of mms but would love to give some of the nasty bacteria a kick.

    I hopeyou're getting on ok at the moment.

    Best wishes,

    Sphynx on Roundabouts.
     
  17. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

    Messages:
    2,456
    Likes:
    3,006
    Couchland, USA
    Hi markmc,

    I believe Wayne got his pad from here:
    https://shop.earthing.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?category=ALL
     
  18. markmc20001

    markmc20001 Guest

    Messages:
    877
    Likes:
    80
    Thanks Leela!

    I'm I supposed to put my computer on that pad, or should I put my feet on it? I guess I can call and ask the company.

    Thanks
     
  19. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,221
    Likes:
    1,371
    Ashland, Oregon
    Hi Mark,

    I believe you can do either. I saw their pictures of people having their feet on the pad, but then heard you can put it directly underneath the computer. It didn't make sense to me to unncessarily have noxious EMFs run through my body before being grounded. Why not just ground them before going through the body?

    Wayne
     
  20. markmc20001

    markmc20001 Guest

    Messages:
    877
    Likes:
    80
    thanks Wayne.

    I'm watching Jim Humble's MMS video now.

    Mark
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page