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Improving Using Rife and MMS for Lyme

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by Wayne, Jul 23, 2011.

  1. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Cautionary Note: - This is a fairly long post.

    My health has been gradually improving since mid-May when I purchased a GB-4000 Rife Frequency Generator Machine (primarily used to kill various pathogens) and began experimenting with it. Ive noticed several things along the way, and thought I would chronicle some of my experiences.

    First of all, I chose to go with Rife frequencies instead of antibiotics to treat my Lyme for a number of reasons. One of the major reasons was because bacterial dieoff will result from both therapies, but can become especially intense when using antibiotics. I read that spirochetal (Lyme) bacteria, when sensing a hostile environment in the bloodstream from antibiotics, will immediately begin burrowing deeper into tissue, nerves, muscles, etc. to escape it. Having very sharp edges, it can create reactions over and above normal dieoff herx reactions. This is apparently a situation where Lyme rage can really set in and become very difficult to deal with.

    Even when I finally got the Rife machine, which supposedly doesnt initiate similar reactions, I still waited 1-2 weeks before finally getting up the courage to try it. Ive been thrown for a loop by many things in the past, and felt I needed to be in at least somewhat good physical and psychological shape to start this journey, and be prepared for whatever it might bring.

    There are almost 100 different frequencies that are listed for Lyme in the manual that came with the Rife machine. This particular machine can run 8 frequencies at a time (which is then called a group), and I started by running 12 different groups for one minute each. Bracing for the worst, I noticed right away that my sinuses began to clear as I held on to the contacts with my hands. I also became very relaxed and sleepy.

    The next day, I felt a bit better than normal. Intuitively, it felt that it was directly related to the Rife session. The next 2-3 days, I felt a bit worse than normal. When I finally reached my normal baseline, I felt I was ready for my next session. This was probably about 5-6 days later. This next session produced very similar results. Except this time, my a bit worse than normal was a little less, lasting no more than 2 days or so.

    Over the next several weeks, my somewhat worse amount of time afterward became less and less. I gradually shortened the time between sessions, and am now at every other day. I also gradually increased my minutes per frequency from one minute up to three minutes. Im going to increase my next session to four minutes.
    ..........................................................

    Several weeks into my experimentation, I talked with Bryan Rosner on the phone to order his excellent book, When Antibiotics Fail... Lyme Disease and Rife Machines - With Critical Evaluation of Leading Alternative Therapies. I mentioned I was thinking about restarting the chlorine dioxide compound called Miracle Mineral Solution (MMS). I had experimented with it in the past with good results, and had heard that it has significantly helped other Lyme patients.

    His first response was something like, yeah, MMS can be very effective for breaking up cysts. We didn't discuss it much, but it was sort of a catalyst for me to start taking MMS again. My gut reaction to this was this could be just one more possibility to avoid the traditional cyst busting drug Flagyl often prescribed by Lyme Literate Medical Doctors (LLMDs). This was about 4-5 weeks into my Rife therapy.

    I started out slowly at one drop of MMS per day, and gradually built up over the weeks to where Im now at 4.5 drops/day. What I noticed was that MMS began to present with the same pattern as the Rife session. In short, I would immediately feel better, and then could feel somewhat worse for a while afterwards. These cycles were much shorter however. The MMS only stays in the system for about two hours; I noticed I could feel better for anywhere from 2 to 6 hours, but then might feel worse for the rest of the day. This eventually gave way to not feeling any worse at all afterwards.

    At one point, I re-read in Bryan Rosners book that usually within six weeks or so, a person will start to occasionally feel significantly better for at least an hour or so; I wondered at the time whether that would happen for me. About 3-4 days later, I awoke, and felt good. As the morning wore on, I felt even better. I did a lot that day (by my standards), and seemed to sail through it all fairly well. By the end of the day, I realized I had done as much on other days, but on this particular day, I was able to do a lot and not feel totally spent, wired out and exhausted afterward. It was a hopeful sign, and Ive had a couple more similar days since then.

    .........................................................

    At one point however, when I was doing both Rife and MMS together, I experimented with doing a Rife session two days in a row. It ended up being my first experience where I felt I had definitely done too much. I woke up often that night with bad headaches which persisted into the next day. By morning I was quite nauseous as well, and totally out of it. I had various small boils breaking out, mostly on my legs. I also had some areas of itching I had experienced in the past at moderate levels (mostly in my feet and ankles), become much worse. That morning I had bad vertigo as well.

    After feeling quite miserable for a couple hours, I got enough focus to prepare a clay foot bath for myself. Within an hour, I was feeling immensely better. I was still a bit weak, and my vertigo did hang on for a while longer, but I could be in bed and be quite comfortable. It was my first lesson in how much worse a herx reaction from too much Rife could become. It also gave me insights into how they might be managed.

    These new insights had me getting more focused on my detoxification tools. I had been gradually doing more frequent Far Infrared (FIR) saunas (because my somewhat improved overall energy and functionality allowed it). I also now had the motivation to start doing epsom salt baths again, something I had often thought about doing more regularly over the years. They proved to feel good and effective, especially when any kind of herx reaction initiated a bit more pain in my body. Im now at the point where I do roughly 2 FIR saunas, 2 clay foot baths, and 2 epsom salt baths each week. I generally dont do anything at least one day a week to give things a break.

    Regarding the skin itching I mentioned above, I read a short time later in the remarkable book, Cure Unknown - Inside the Lyme Epidemic, that Lyme bacteria can actually hide out in skin cells. It made sense to me, given how Ive experienced skin itching episodes over the years, and had them become worse right after doing a Rife session. It also made me realize why antibiotics do not work well for some Lyme patients. I think antibiotics normally work in the bloodstream and cant get into other areas of the body very well, the skin likely being one of them.

    .........................................................

    Theres so much information on this forum and online about Lyme testing. I never felt I had the combination of cognitive ability + energy + focus to justify making a huge effort to try to comprehend such detailed and intricate information. I had at least 2-3 negative tests over the years, but came to understand how notoriously unreliable conventional Lyme testing is. My most recent testing came back positive for Lyme and a number of co-infections, and I trusted my naturopathic doctor (ND) to interpret them as well as I ever could. Now, my Rife experiences have given me some additional perspectives on how to determine whether a person truly has Lyme or not. Doug McClain's story, who was purportedly the first person to cure himself of Lyme using electrical frequencies, illustrates my latest thinking quite well.

    Doug was experimenting in his basement (around 1986) looking at Lyme spirochetes under a microscope and running various frequencies to see their effect on them. While running a certain frequency, he was able to watch the spirochetes literally explode before his eyes. It was a eureka moment for him. But the following morning brought another eureka moment. He felt absolutely miserable. He quickly realized he had exposed the spirochetes in his body to this frequency as well, and he was having a huge dieoff/herx reaction.

    This story, plus my own experience, makes me think that somewhat of a marker for whether a person truly has Lyme or not would be to experiment with known effective Rife frequencies, and see if there is a significant reaction. Seems it could be just as reliable (or more) than some of the tests that are currently available. Since Rife machines can also kill various viruses, I think its possible that somebody with known viral infections/overloads could use Rife frequencies as well, and could have some similar experiences as mine with bacterial treatment. Ive read that viruses in general are easier to treat with Rife machines than bacteria.

    Eventually, I plan to experiment with various Rife frequencies to target certain viruses, and use the above diagnostic criteria as somewhat of a barometer as to whether they are a problem for me or not. Not very scientific by most standards, but it seems to be the best choice for me. Its really difficult for me at this time to make doctor appointments, sit through them and try to stay focused, and followup afterwards. I still have paperwork for blood work that was given to me by my doctor several months ago. Just cant bring myself to make the expenditure of energy to pull it all off. Perhaps more upcoming good days will have me re-evaluating this strategy.

    For the time being, I'll be staying focused on my current strategy of Rife and MMS. I feel it's working well, and is creating as much dieoff as I would want to tolerate at any given time. My next step might be to include (very gradually), a Salt C protocol.

    ...........................................................

    One last tidbit: I met a local 40-year-old man recently (by phone only so far), who discovered only last year he probably has had Lyme since he was eight. His wife and three children all have it as well. They are now all treating themselves with the same GB4000 Rife machine I'm using. His wife has improved to the point where her immune system has now kicked in (a common occurrence after lowering Lyme bacteria levels to a certain point).

    He also shared that after he tested positive, about 6-7 siblings/cousins he grew up with in Iowa have now all tested positive as well. All of them have chosen to purchase the GB4000, and are sharing notes with each other as they learn and progress. I anticipate him being a valuable resource for me as I move forward. As I get new insights from them and my own experiences, Ill try to pass them along with some much shorter posts! :Retro smile:

    Best Regards, Wayne
  2. DANEL

    DANEL

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    hi wayne,

    thank you for this post, very informative.

    in speaking with bryan, and reading his books, did you every consider marshall protocol? i would love to know your opinion on it . i suffer with lots of bacteria and fungus from a moldy house and would like to see if it could help my cfs and infections and health.

    are you on a protocol here for cfs freddd or rich?

    have you considered mercury or chelation? bryan is big on lyme sufferers with mercury.

    thanks for your response

    denise
  3. liquid sky

    liquid sky Senior Member

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    Good story, Wayne. I am positive for borrelia per Igenex Lab. I have seen a LLMD and followed the antibiotic route for about a year. I noticed a similar pattern to what you mention. First, I would feel better with more energy and decreased symptoms. Then I would become very ill and would have to stop the antibiotics. I still have a boatload of antibiotics sitting around here.

    I have extremely severe pain constantly and could not tolerate the increase in pain that always came with each type of antibiotic after a few days. At first I made it through a couple antibiotics for about a month each. Then I got to the point that after only a few days, I would be writhing on the floor. Totally intolerable and even strong painkillers would not touch the pain. Eventually, I had to stop treatment. I must say, Flagyl was the very worst of all, caused severe neurological symptoms and I was afraid I would not get back to baseline.

    I wonder if there is any way to try the rife machine before spending the money for one. How much is the one you use? I have spent so much money on things that have not helped me. I am not familiar with MMS. I have tried FIR sauna with no success.

    Thank you for posting your story and please keep updating us on your progress. I have pretty much retreated from all treatment at present, but I may try again sometime.
  4. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Marshall Protocol - MCB Protocol - Chelation

    Hi Denise,

    I just got done reading your introductory post (which is how I know your name :Retro smile:). Sounds like you have an awful lot going on.

    I spoke with Bryan only briefly, but he does have a chapter in his book devoted solely to the Marshall protocol (see link to book below). He definitely feels it was helpful for him and can be very helpful for Lyme patients in general. I'm hesitant at this time to delve into more deeply, as I have a pretty strong aversion to antibiotics. I am keeping it in mind however. If I get a sense it could potentially get me through a certain phase of my own healing, then I would likely pursue it despite whatever reservations I might have.

    The Top 10 Lyme Disease Treatments


    I am currently on Rich's simplified methylation block protocol, and feel I've received a lot of benefit from it. I have not pursued Freddd's protocol, because quite honestly, I don't feel I have the combination of cognitive ability + energy + focus to justify making a huge effort to try to comprehend such detailed and intricate information. This is very similar to how I've felt about learning the intricacies of Lyme testing.

    If my energy, focus and cognitive ability improve, I would likely try to delve into it. But my general philosophy is to focus on only about as much as I can handle at any given time, and see how it progresses. Given the success I'm achieving with my Rife and MMS protocol, and realizing how much I still have to learn as I go, I'm not in a hurry to venture outside this current focus.

    Regarding chelation: I've seen a lot of reports and references about some of the dangers associated with chelation, and have tended to stay away from anything that strikes me as being even remotely aggressive. That's why I've tended more toward "gentle chelation", using clay foot baths, FIR saunas, detox baths, coffee enemas, etc. I feel they're generally quite gentle, but I also think they are very effective. Proceeding steadily without overtaxing my system is my choice of treatment, especially for something as potentially dangerous as chelating heavy metals.

    Hope some of this helps. All the best to you in sorting out your myriad of symptoms, and prioritizing your treatments to address them. It can all be a daunting task. It's been a real discipline for me to try to focus on one thing at a time, get familiar with it, experiment with it, see how it works, and then determine how it might pave the way for my next step.

    Best, Wayne
  5. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Antibiotics for Lyme - FIR Saunas - MMS

    Hi Liquid Sky,

    Thanks much for sharing your story and your experiences. It's just one more example of how some things (like antibiotics) just don't work well at all for some people. This is why I decided to see if I could get results first from Rife therapy, which has virtually no side effects unless it's done too aggressively.

    Regarding FIR saunas: I've been doing them for a couple years now. I've gone through different health cycles during this time, and have noticed that sometimes I've done well with them, and other times have not. Taking a 1/4 tsp of Himalayan salt before doing them has helped, but I think my recent Rife and MMS therapies have given my body a better resiliency to not only handle them well, but to get even more benefit than I ever have.

    This exemplifies one of things that I try to keep in mind in dealing with my chronic health issues. I think we are always going through shifting cycles, and things that may or may not work will shift along with these cycles. Takes a little courage at times for me to go back and revisit things that at another time seemed to no longer work or had become difficult to tolerate.

    Regarding MMS: There's a lot of posting about MMS on the curezone website, although I have to warn you, some of it has been less than civil at times. Some will claim it's a poison and it's crazy to even consider putting it in your body. Many others claim it has improved their health immeasurably. I may try to create a separate post at some point to try to describe more about it's action and why I decided to take the "risk" of trying it. For me, the risk/reward ratio seemed reasonable, and I feel it's worked out very well for me.

    Best, Wayne
  6. DANEL

    DANEL

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    thank you so much for the information
    and good luck to you as well

    seems like you are doing well with the rife and MMS protocol

    i will have to look up MMS i don't know what it is
    thanks denise
  7. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    Thanks for sharing this Wayne, please keep us posted. I started looking into these machines about a year agoa or so, but did not have the money for purchase or rental. It has fallen by the wayside for me, for now. Please keep us posted!

    GG
  8. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Trying a GB4000 - Costs $1,825

    Hi again Liquid Sky,

    I just noticed I forgot to reply to your above questions. My understanding is all distributors give a 30-day money back guarantee. I negotiated a 60-day time period for myself. This would be a good way to try it without having to make a commitment to the total price of $1,825. I've noticed there are very few used GB4000s for sale online, and that they tend to hold their value very well.

    Best, Wayne
  9. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    Wayne -

    Thanks for this update! I love how you experiment on yourself and then share with all of us. I'm avidly following your RIFE experience.

    I had never heard of MMS, and am interested in your synopsis, if you get around to writing one. Why do you also do the RIFE machine, if MMS (claims to) kills off the virus/bacteria? Why do some people claim MMS is dangerous (is it?)?

    I'm thinking that the advantage of MMS, compared with RIFE, is that we wouldn't have to know which bacteria/viruses we have. Targeting all of the possibilities with the RIFE machine sounds daunting, to me. Got any thoughts about that?

    Madie
  10. illsince1977

    illsince1977 A shadow of my former self

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    Wayne, I am so happy for your successes! [​IMG]

    I look forward to hearing more about both your rife experiences and MMS (if you ever get the wherewithal to share about it) here.

  11. mojoey

    mojoey Senior Member

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    Thanks for sharing this Wayne. From both what i read and my firsthand experience, i believe frequency treatment is as good as it gets for pathogen-killing. Which makes is quite a bargain at just under $2000 considering that one year of HIV drugs would cost 2x that under my current plan. However, the only reason i've withheld from going the rife route is that a frequency treatment is only as effective as the frequencies you have at your disposal match what pathogens you have. I think for lyme patients, there is simply too much anecdotal success to discount that there are effective frequencies for TBIs. It's the viruses and the retroviruses i'm unsure about. Sure, there are frequencies available for download for just about any virus, but that doesn't mean anything in and of itself. Frankly, I'm sure many frequencies out there are baseless.

    My other concern is of course about die off. Many lyme patients report serious die off from using rife, and CFS patients typically have elevated baseline inflammation which would in theory make us experience similar die-off. Klinghardt said for every 1 patient that gets better from rife, 10 get worse, and that has nothing to do with it being ineffective for treating the bug. If you read his latest presentation, he talks about the inflammatory response and not the bug causing most of our symptoms, even though both need to be addressed simultaneously to treat chronic illness with any success. Based on what i see with rifing, abx, valcyte, antiretroviral drugs, that seems especially true for ME/CFS patients. So in that case, we need to do everything reasonably possible to control inflammation, detox, and drain while rifing.

    I'm glad to hear you're doing well and i'm eager to hear more. I just think there are a few caveats to keep in mind for those thinking about following, and accordingly, precautions we could take to optimize success with rifing.
    Wayne likes this.
  12. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

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    Mojoey, I read your post with interest. May I ask which approaches are available to help with inflammation flares etc when trying these treatments? Many thanks
  13. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    Me too, Mojoey! Very useful perspective. I hope you and Wayne will both continue this exploration of how to best use frequency treatment for healing.

    Madie
  14. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi All,

    I did increase my last session two days ago to four minutes, and my pattern continued as I was able to enjoy a remarkably good day yesterday (such as described above). I spent about 6 hours pacing myself well as I cleaned and organized my small 15' camper, something I've been wanting to do for over a year now.

    Hey Joey, thanks much for your reply. There's much in it I look forward to discussing with you. Thanks everybody else for your replies as well. I have a pretty big day planned for myself, as I'm heading up about 20 miles into the mountains to do some St. John's Wort wildcrafting, which I make a SJW tincture and oil with. Even after a very full day yesterday, my body (and psyche) feels up to it.

    So I'll try to get back tomorrow or sometime soon.

    Best Regards, Wayne
  15. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    I'm so glad you're feeling better, Wayne. No rife therapy ever worked for me (the Doug coil gave me horrible heart palpitations that were scary and lasted for 3 weeks after a five minute session; the Rife-Bare made me so wired I couldn't sleep at all; and the Dan machine was useless. I never did try the GB4000 but gave up on rife after that and I am also EMF sensitive so I wasn't sure about it).

    But for some it really seems to cure them of lyme. I've talked to Doug personally, it cured their whole family. We are all different. Perhaps if you're metal poisoned or mercury poisoned rife is more difficult.

    But I will tell you those kefir grains of yours are amazing. I PMed you. They really have a wonderful energy too. Not to go all mystical but they're robust, vigorous, energetic, happy, and really want to go to work hard and help people. The grains are making incredibly delicious kefir out of POWDERED goat milk reconstituted in water.
    Wayne likes this.
  16. pine108kell

    pine108kell Senior Member

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    Although not a totally new idea, I think M0Joey's post makes a lot of sense. I have a rife machine, have the similar response of feeling relaxed for a few hours, then much worse for a few days and then back to baseline. Same for antibiotics, same for oxygen.

    All these things seem to initially calm the immune system, then kill the bacteria and overload our systems and feel worse. Eventually this clears. Inflammation decreases, then increases, then back to baseline. The problem is that I have been doing this approach for almost 10 years and it is not obviously clear what improvements have been made. Killing the bugs is not neccessarily reducing the baseline inflammation.

    I also agree that while there has been enough anecdotal experience to think rife may be acting on Borrelia in some manner, there is really no reason to believe that anyone has any kind of grasp on what rife does to other specific pathogens, not to mention that anyone would actually know the appropriate frequencies.

    However, it is always interesting to hear other people's stories when emperically treating themselves, so thanks to Wayne, the OP.
    Wayne likes this.
  17. mojoey

    mojoey Senior Member

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    Hey anniekim,

    There are a few things that anecdotally seem to help. The only conventional ones I know of are LDN and actos. LDN seems to help patients tolerate GcMAF better than those without it. Actos is probably helpful for some, but many patients don't tolerate it. Then there are other methods like switching to a pristine environment which seems to lower inflammation by nixing the constant reactivity to every little biotoxin and/or chemical. Alternative methods range anywhere from autonosode therapy to autourine therapy, which I don't know enough about and are controversial enough where I'd rather not discuss them publicly.

    Unfortunately there seems to be no reliable conventional way to keep c4a and other inflammatory markers at bay. I'm taking LDN and it hasn't kept this unnecessary inflammation completely at bay though it has been helpful.
  18. markmc20001

    markmc20001 Guest

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    Sounds like a great program Wayne. Always helpful for me to hear other patient experiences.

    I'm one of those who has problems with chelation. I loose motility in my GI system, and get cramps when loosing minerals I think.
  19. slayadragon

    slayadragon Senior Member

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    This is a great report, Wayne! Thanks so much.

    I'd like to hear from more people on this topic.

    Best, Lisa
  20. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Lyme Dieoff - Detoxification Techniques

    Hi Joey,

    Nice summary of a number of points. Im going to reply to some of them in more than one post.

    Die off was (and continues to be) a major concern for me. I gave it a lot of serious thought in the two years following my diagnosis as I contemplated the best treatment direction to go in. Some of the descriptions I had run across about Lyme die off were truly horrendous. I noticed that generally speaking, dieoffs from antibiotics tended to be worse (sometimes much worse) than dieoffs from Rife frequencies. Plus, there was also the major specter of additional stress on the body from the antibiotics themselves, apart from the dieoffs they produced.

    As I looked at this landscape, I realized that what I had going for me was pretty extensive experience in successfully using various detoxification techniques. Ive written about them often, but heres a quick summary of what I used in the past and at the end what Ive added more recently. 1) Detoxification clay foot baths; 2) Far infrared (FIR) saunas; 3) Coffee enemas (CEs); 4) Oil pulling; 5) Short periods of partial fasting; 6) Methylation supplements that worked well; 7) Epsom salt baths; 8) Castor oil packs; 9) Zeolite/bentonite clay ingestion; 10) Adequate iodine intake; 11) Lithium orotate supplementation; 12) Kefir supplementation. There are others as well, but I consider them less significant.

    As I wrote in my first post on this thread, I had an experience of doing Rife two days in a row, and experienced way to much dieoff. My first choice of doing a clay foot bath proved to be very effective, and I felt immensely better within an hour. Had I not felt better, I could readily have gone on to a CE, a series of CEs, or some other combination of treatments. That I was able to get on top of things with just one of my detoxification techniques was highly encouraging. I feel my extensive experience with so many techniques has given me a certain detoxification stamina that will serve me well as I go forward with my Lyme dieoff program. Currently, I feel confident Im well prepared to handle just about any detoxification that may come along.

    Regarding inflammation: I have to admit, Ive not done a lot of research on this, and wish I knew more about the inflammatory response. What I have done that I feel is addressing this (at least somewhat) is using some earthing products, both for my computer use, and for my bed and sleep use. This is a whole topic in and of itself, but one of the major things earthing can do is reduce inflammation in the body. Its on my agenda to look more into neurologic Chiropractic, which as I understand, focuses on inflammation issues by using some high quality herbs in large doses. Just one more thing to research when I have the energy and focus to do so. In the mean time, Ive noticed since doing Rife and MMS that I tend to have less of a pressure feeling in my head and brain. Can't help but think this is the result of lessening the inflammation in my body, which may be the result of somewhat lowering the Lyme bacteria levels in my body.

    One last tidbit, regarding Rife producing dieoffs. I feel the Rife and MMS protocol I'm using has given me a significant amount of control of the degree of dieoff I can initiate at any given time. This, in addition to my experience with effective detoxification techniques, seems to be the good combination for helping ensure I'm giving myself a good probability of success. I'll comment more on Rife success rates and some of the reasons for failure in my next post.

    Wayne

    ETA I don't know what TBIs are. Could somebody let me know what this stands for? Thanks.

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