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A Little Poisoning Along the Road to ME/CFS
Looking at my symptoms, many of which are far less these days and some are gone, it would be easy to figure that I'd just been dealing with some heavy-duty menopausal issues.
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Important Discovery Exposes Autoimmune Nature of ME/CFS - HERVs Implicated

Discussion in 'Phoenix Rising Articles' started by Phoenix Rising Team, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

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    Must be nice to know all there is to know about a subject! I'll bet this doctor "knows" that if a ship gets too close to the edge of the Earth, it will fall off, and that the Sun revolves around the Earth, LOL
     
  2. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Hi Sergio,

    Great work putting something together in Spanish! Nice diagram too! I sent you a PM about this, but in case anyone else in interested, I thought I'd post something general about it here too.

    As you've probably seen the paper makes reference to 'unpublished data' a couple of times, so I expect there is more information to come. Also the WPI haven't yet published the video of De Meirleir's recent talk, titled "ME/CFS: from Infectious Disease to Autoimmune Disorder". I think they will post it on their blog once the other paper is published. That no doubt will give us some of the details we crave!

    However, they have already published a general summary on their blog, in which they mention Th17 cells which are immune cells linked to several other autoimmune conditions, MS, RA, Crohns, etc.

    The blog also mentions aberrant protein conformation which I'm not that clued up on yet, but in short: proteins expressed by cells do various tasks and to do those tasks each proteins forms a specific structure. but proteins can sometimes form an incorrect structure and when that happens the protein may have modified functionality. I guess there is room for this to be part of the cause of autoimmunity, but I’m just guessing on that.

    If it is autoimmune then it is likely that B cells are affected and I think it is interesting that the Mella and Fluge study using Rituximab reported improvement in about the same proportion of patients as were found to have HERV proteins in this study from De Meirleir and Lombardi.

    ME shares many characteristics with known autoimmune diseases, such as a higher occurrence in females than men, improved symptoms during pregnancy, immune dysfunction, family history of autoimmunity etc. Add to that the link with pathogens such as EBV that are thought to play a role in autoimmunity, and now HERVs being found in major antigen-presenting cells...

    For me, the increased number of women with ME compared to men is the most striking link. I think it is most likely down to genetics, specifically the X chromosome but it's not out of the question that it is hormonal, or a bit of both.
    This new study on MS talks about an increased DNA copy number of HERV-W in MS. Which is strongly linked with the pathopysiology of MS via the MSRV.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23308264

    Here is another paper on MS looking at MS-implicated HERVs on the x chromosome.
    http://www.retrovirology.com/content/8/S2/P54

    Even the most commonly accepted cause of autoimmunity, via molecular mimicry is often complex so I don't imagine De Meirleir, Lombardi et al have the whole picture yet, and even acknowledged autoimmune diseases are not understood that well yet. Still, that needn't stop us thinking about it and discussing the possibilities. I don't know if anyone would be interested in an article looking at autoimmunity in general, or not, but if there is enough interest then maybe I'll put something together...

    Best
    Joel
     
  3. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    KDM is talking about that for years and in the presentation in dutch I saw it is mentioned by name.
     
    justy likes this.
  4. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    The test is PrPc functional testing--mis-folded cell surface proteins. I have had it.

    Sushi
     
    justy likes this.
  5. Legolas

    Legolas

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    I've put below a link of an article about a specific HERV and MS, some lines from the article and an image expressing the general hypothesis.
    Since MS is kind of put forward as a possible model for ME, this could be relevant.
    Anyway, i think it's interesting.

    http://msj.sagepub.com/content/18/12/1721.full.pdf html

    These results together with the many others
    accumulated over the past two decades indicate that this
    MSRV subtype of the HERV-W family is likely to play a role
    in initiating and fueling a pathogenic ’chain reaction’ causing
    MS.
    Based on the present observations and on the preclinical
    efficacy of an anti-Env neutralizing monoclonal antibody
    in MS-like EAE animal models induced by HERV-W Env,
    as evoked above in this discussion, a humanized antibody is
    now to be evaluated in clinical trials with MS patients
    (Clinical Phase I has been achieved).
    [​IMG]
     
    snowathlete likes this.
  6. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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  7. girlinthesnow

    girlinthesnow Senior Member

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    Very interesting post Alex, my IL17 is sky high ( as is my CD14s), so the gamma delta T cells and autoimmunity connection looks like a potent area for research for those pwME whose disease is gut based.
     
  8. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Thanks snowathlete - stunning news and very welcome progress from KDM and his team.
     
    snowathlete likes this.
  9. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Can I add - on the gender bias it does not seem to be so in my case. I (UK) went down first and brother (US) went down a year later. His even more severe than my own severities apparently exhibiting more dangerous latent viruses such as JCV (think that's the one - affects the brain).
     
    snowathlete likes this.
  10. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Interesting, JCV infects the GI tract as well as the brain. I think i read/heard somewhere about autoimmune conditions presenting more severely in the men that do get them too.
     
  11. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Did anything come of this finding?
     
    Sparrowhawk likes this.

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