New Atmosphere, New Vision: Gibson and Whittemore Kick Off Invest in ME Conference 2016
Mark Berry reports on Dr. Gibson's introduction and Dr. Whittemore's keynote speech, at the 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference in London.
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Immune restoration

Discussion in 'Immunological' started by justy, Jul 23, 2014.

  1. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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  2. Lillybelle

    Lillybelle Senior Member

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  3. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    I have just been told that my TH1 immunity is seriously lowered, and my doctor has plans for me, but this article looks very comprehensive, with good explanations of what is going on and some suggestions for what to do about it, including studies showing the evidence of the various approaches.

    Must remember to bookmark this. My doc has already suggested we should, at some point add in DHEA (and I am deficient) as it increases TH1 immunity. The only problem is I couldn't tolerate it before, but im not starting it straight away.
     
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  4. Lillybelle

    Lillybelle Senior Member

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    What worries me from this study is that we should not be cooking in any oil whatsoever (even stir fry?) I don't fry much stuff eat a range of steamed vegie's. But diidnt think roasting stuff in the oven was any good either. So in terms of eating stir fry with protein (ie fish, chicken tofu or meat) it's out? Even with cold pressed olive oil??

    I dont eat anything deep fried and only occasionally roast stuff. Also eat a half raw diet but! Our only option is steaming or broiling everything? I just dont think I can give up my stir fry with a little garlic, ginger and oil :(
     
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  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Can u get a 1mg strength dhea pill and slowly increase 1mg at a time until you get to the desired dose for you? ?
     
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  6. Helen

    Helen Senior Member

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    Thanks for the interesting article. Could a liquid sublingual DHEA supplement be an option for you? I have no personal experience but anyone might have.
     
  7. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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  8. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    I think that's the way to go - I started with emptying a 10mg pill out and putting half back in - was too much so did a quarter, but its not exactly scientific is it? emptying out the powder and dividing it. At approx. 2mg a day I was weepy and raging.
     
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  9. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    My herbalist used to give me this and while I was on her formula (which contained many other things, including ashwaganda) my recurrent lung infections became less and less. Last few weeks is the first time ive had a lung/chest infection in over two years.

    Not wanting to do anything other than what my new M.E doc recommends at the moment - I don't want to muddy the waters. But once treatment is in full swing I can discuss other options with him - its always good to have ideas and back up plans.
     
  10. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    I think that cold pressed virgin coconut oil is absolutely fine for stir fry and tastes great too! the article mentions it somewhere, I think saying its safe and has no effect. Dr Myhill advocates the use of coconut oil for cooking. Thanks for reminding me about stir fry - think that's what ill have tonight - sounds yummy - I have mine with tofu and cashew nuts as I am a vegetarian.
     
  11. Lillybelle

    Lillybelle Senior Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehydroepiandrosterone
    In women with adrenal insufficiency and the healthy elderly there is insufficient evidence to support the use of DHEA.[8][9
    It is not known whether DHEA is safe for long-term use. Some researchers believe DHEA supplements might actually raise the risk of breast cancer, prostate cancer, heart disease, diabetes,[27] and stroke. DHEA may stimulate tumor growth in types of cancer that are sensitive to hormones, such as some types of breast, uterine, and prostate cancer.[27] DHEA may increase prostate swelling in men with benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH), an enlarged prostate gland.[26]

    DHEA is a steroid hormone. High doses may cause aggressiveness, irritability, trouble sleeping, and the growth of body or facial hair on women.[26] It also may stop menstruation and lower the levels of HDL ("good" cholesterol), which could raise the risk of heart disease.[26] Other reported side effects include acne, heart rhythm problems, liver problems, hair loss (from the scalp), and oily skin. It may also alter the body's regulation of blood sugar.[26]

    DHEA is possibly unsafe for individuals experiencing the following conditions: pregnancy and breast-feeding, hormone sensitive conditions, liver problems, diabetes, depression or mood disorders,
    polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS), or cholesterol problems.[33] Individuals experiencing any of these conditions should consult with a doctor before taking.

    Cancer
    Some
    in vitro studies have found DHEA to have both antiproliferative and apoptotic effect on cancer cell lines.[53][54][55] The clinical significance of these findings, if any, is unknown. Higher levels of DHEA and other endogenous sex hormones are strongly associated with an increased risk of developing breast cancer in both pre- and postmenopausal women.[56][57]
     
  12. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    @justy

    How is your zinc status?
     
  13. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    With dhea supplementation its about taking a dose that gets you to an optimal level of dhea, so initially testing is required to work out the correct dose. I assume if the correct dose is used then the risk of cancers and other conditions from dhea use wouldnt be too different to healthy people with optimal dhea levels who dont supplement with dhea.

    It seems that Justy has a dhea level well below whats considered normal which would bring about its own risks. My dhea levels were also once well below normal range, with adding extra dhea i have got it into an optimal range.

    The side effects of dhea listed above mostly seem consistent with taking doses that would put dhea levels well above whats considered normal. Its a case of monitoring ones dhea levels to make sure they stay within normal ranges. Also important to monitor related hormones as dhea can also effect these too??
     
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  14. Lillybelle

    Lillybelle Senior Member

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    Tru heaps, but I guess thepoint is, DHEA is a hormne, steroid hormone and you dont want to muck about with it too much. And their is still inconclusive evidence on it. Its not like a vitamin or amino acid. Also Justy said it affected her emotionally. Their are lots of ways to improve the immune system without additional steroids.
     
  15. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    definately. I think we are both saying be careful. DHEA is a natural substance, we secrete it for a reason. A low level can be just as bad as too higher level.

    When i first started dhea i became overstimulated by it with insomnia etc but i did notice some positive effects. it just took time to adjust the doses and like most meds cfsers use, we need to start low and go slow. 5-10mg is a common dose for women for HRT, so with cfsme in the equation 1mg everyday or second day could be a good starting point. Men are higher in the 50mg range which i take now, 25mg twice a day. I had to drop it from 50mg where i started to 5mg and i slowly increased from there. fixing this did have a positive effect on a few things like energy, sleep, mood etc

    I guess what im saying is i wouldnt turn my back on it because its a steroid, but it needs to be in balance like other steroids in our body like testosterone, estrogen, progesterone and cortisol etc All hormones seem to effect emotions, need the right balance and work with a good doctor who has experience with this in cfs/me patients.

    Also no silver bullets, we need lots of bullets, dhea is just one bullet??
     
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  16. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    There are a LOT of positive studies on DHEA use as well in the literature. Wikipedia is highly biased against DHEA in my opinion. I would not base my decision whether or not to use it based on that source.

    DHEA has been shown unequivocally to have benefit for patients with adrenal insufficiency and low levels of DHEA.
     
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  17. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    Unknown.
     
  18. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    I think for me with DHEA, the point is that I am VERY deficient, and now we know my TH1 immunity is lowered it would seem sensible to try taking it again at some sort of level.
     
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  19. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Well, if you're not supplementing it, it's likely low. Zinc deficiency will adversely affect immune function and TH1/TH2 balance:

    http://www.immunityageing.com/content/6/1/9

    Zinc deficiency also leads to excessive aromatase activity, causing higher levels of conversion of DHEA to estrogen, which could very well explain the rage and weepiness.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2014
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  20. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    Thanks - good info!
     

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