I'm not just not showering, I'm repopulating my microbiome

[Sasha]

In the study mentioned in this article, they used 1488 mg of nitrate (in the form of potassium nitrate).

I think though with the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria, this forms a dynamic biochemical system, and the amount of NO and nitrite produced by these bacteria on your skin depends on how much you are sweating, which in turn depends on your sympathetic nervous system activation.

That's a very good point.

Did I read somewhere that you need to expose your skin to sunlight for this effect or have I made that up in my head? I wonder if I'm confusing this with something about oil on the skin and Vit D production.

Am I right in thinking that the abiome stuff isn't available to buy yet, but there's a waiting list?

 

[Sasha]

Actually, I've just answered my own question about availability. You can go to this page:

https://www.aobiome.com/bacteria-new-black

and click on the "join our mailing list" button (the middle blue button at the top right) to get updates about availability.

There's a special list for international customers:

https://www.aobiome.com/welcome-early-adopters

 

[Sidereal]

Castile and other old-fashioned soaps are still on the market. They don't have any sulfonated detergents in them, but I find them irritating.

I knew a lot of hippies, but all of them bathed and washed their hair.

They seem to be saying that those soaps also kill AOB.

Q: Does my sunscreen, soap, shampoo, cream, or deodorant kill AOB?
A: Yes, it very likely does.

Geek Answer: The answer is its very likely and we are actively researching this question. If you read the labels you will discover that there are many ingredients in most of your personal care products. While it is still early and we have only studied a few of the most common ingredients, we are finding that many of these are toxic to AOB. This is consistent with the hypothesis that modern hygiene practices may have played a role in eliminating AOB from our skin. This is a partial list of ingredients that we have found that kill or inhibit AOB in laboratory tests: Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Sodium Coco-Sulfate, Castile-Type Soaps, and Amine Oxides (such as Lauryl Dimethyl Amine Oxide). The encouraging finding is that we have recently found ingredients that are compatible with AOB. There is a lot of work still to be done but we are in the process of testing, certifying, and developing hygiene products that are compatible with AOB. Of course, using less of these products would be the most effective at supporting your biome, we understand that people still want to use sunscreen and other products. We suggest that you allow your lotion to fully absorb before spraying AO+ mist, perhaps even stagger the use of each in the day.

https://www.aobiome.com/faq

 

[Hip]

They seem to be saying that those soaps also kill AOB.

Yes I think all soaps kill the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria (AOB), but soaps containing the sulfonated detergents introduced in the 1960s do so with particular efficiency. Sulfonated detergents even at ppm levels can kill AOB, according to Whitlock.

Did I read somewhere that you need to expose your skin to sunlight for this effect or have I made that up in my head?

I don't think there is a direct involvement of sunlight, but sweating as result of hot weather and/or doing physical work will increase the activity of these ammonia-oxidizing bacteria, because the bacteria utilize the urea and ammonia that are abundantly found in sweat to produce NO on the skin.

So if you don't use soaps for cleaning and live in a hot country where you sweat a lot, you are presumably going to have higher blood levels of NO.

 

[Hip]

Note that certain aquarium products also contain the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria used in this AO+ spray.

It says in the FAQ that the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria used in the AO+ spray is Nitrosomonas eutropha.

If you look at the aquarium product Microbe-Lift Nite Out II, you will see it contains Nitrosomonas, Nitrospira and Nitrobacter.

In Whitlock's patent, he claims any of the following ammonia-oxidizing bacteria can be applied to the skin: Nitrosomonas, Nitrosococcus, Nitrosospira, Nitrosocystis, Nitrosolobus and Nitrosovibrio.

 

[Sasha]

I wonder if it would be possible to grow your own healthy skin-microbiome back by using olive oil or coconut oil as an all-body cleanser instead of using soap. But I think I read somewhere (on his website?) that only 25% of us still have the appropriate bugs...

 

[Hip]

But I think I read somewhere (on his website?) that only 25% of us still have the appropriate bugs...

None of us will have the appropriate AOB on our skin if we clean ourselves with soap.

 

[Sasha]

None of us will have the appropriate AOB on our skin if we clean ourselves with soap.

I think I misunderstood this

https://www.aobiome.com/maintaining-your-natural-skin-biome

"Where only 5% of our test subjects had AOB on their skin when shampooing regularly, the majority supported AOB without using AO+ and by simply refraining from shampoo for one week."

I thought that 5% had the AOB before the study but I'm not so sure now. Anyway, 5% isn't good odds!

 

[Hip]

@Sasha
Yes, it's not clear whether the 5% found to have the AOB on their skin are individuals using the AO+ spray, or just individuals in the general population.

What I find unclear is why refraining from shampooing makes a big difference to the AOB populations on your skin. When you shampoo, you only put the shampoo detergent on your head and hair, so why should it affect the rest of your skin? Unless the shampoo detergent run off when you rinse runs down the skin and kills the AOB.

 

[Sasha]

What I find unclear is why refraining from shampooing makes a big difference to the AOB populations on your skin. When you shampoo, you only put the shampoo detergent on your head and hair, so why should it effect the rest of your skin? Unless the shampoo detergent run off when you rinse runs down the skin and kills the AOB.

That confused me - shampoo isn't a US term for using shower gel or something, is it? :thumbdown:

 

[IreneF]

I took a bath today and my skin feels so much better. I sat on a stool with my feet in the water, and my husband went over my back with a pumice stone. Then I scoured the rest of myself. Soaped only my pits and my feet, then slathered alpha hydroxy acid lotion everywhere. No more itching, no crash from getting overheated.

 

[acer2000]

So maybe I'm just kind of foggy but have they actually done research to show that these AOB were there prior to the 1960s - before the "modern" soap era? Like are they supposed to be there or are they just claiming that if you put them there they have these effects that they have observed?

Like if nobody has had them on their skin in close to 60 years, how did they know that they once were a natural part of someone's skin? They can't exactly go back to the 1950s and check. And if they don't grow back naturally once they are eliminated by soap... Maybe they found a tribe of people who don't shower and studied them?

 

[Hip]

Good question, @acer2000.

I am not sure what evidence there is that ammonia-oxidizing bacteria colonized our skin before the advent of modern soaps and the modern culture of daily bathing.

Ammonia-oxidizing bacteria are ubiquitous in the soil, so presumably our ancestors, who were mostly farmers, would have been in constant contact with these bacteria.

 

[IreneF]

Good question, @acer2000.

I am not sure what evidence there is that ammonia-oxidizing bacteria colonized our skin before the advent of modern soaps and the modern culture of daily bathing.

Ammonia-oxidizing bacteria are ubiquitous in the soil, so presumably our ancestors, who were mostly farmers, would have been in constant contact with these bacteria.

So if you rolled in the dirt, would you repopulate your skin's microbiome? My cat does this nearly every time she goes outside. I thought she just liked the way it felt, but maybe she knows something I don't.

 

[IreneF]

OK, this is wildly off-topic, but I was googling the ammonia-oxidizing microbiome and found an astonishing news story:

http://www.enews163.com/2014/08/10/...ured-bleeding-butt-ok-piers-figure-43179.html

Um.

 

[JAH]

So if you rolled in the dirt, would you repopulate your skin's microbiome? My cat does this nearly every time she goes outside. I thought she just liked the way it felt, but maybe she knows something I don't.

Yes.

"The story of AOBiome begins in 2001, in a patch of dirt on the floor of a Boston-area horse stable, where Whitlock was collecting soil samples. A few months before, an equestrienne he was dating asked him to answer a question she had long been curious about: Why did her horse like to roll in the dirt? Whitlock didn’t know, but he saw an opportunity to impress.

Whitlock thought about how much horses sweat in the summer. He wondered whether the animals managed their sweat by engaging in dirt bathing. Could there be a kind of “good” bacteria in the dirt that fed off perspiration? He knew there was a class of bacteria that derive their energy from ammonia rather than from carbon and grew convinced that horses (and possibly other mammals that engage in dirt bathing) would be covered in them. “The only way that horses could evolve this behavior was if they had substantial evolutionary benefits from it,” he told me."

 

[NilaJones]

Hello folks

I just read about this today, elsewhere, and came to PR to post but of course y'all already knew. I'm bumping the thread in case others missed it like I did, the first time around.

I've never been a huge user of soap. My normal practice is to wash my body with water only (sometimes a bit of soap under my arms), and to wash my hair every 2-4 days with extremely mild shampoo.

For me, soaking in a tub is important. In a shower I feel more of a need to use soap all over in order to get clean. It substitutes for the soaking.

I'd like to try these bacteria, but I'm reluctant to spent $99!

@Hip 's link above,. to the aquarium product, looks good. But it says to wash hands after use and the MSDS says it may cause skin irritation. No bad ingredients except 'preservative', which could be anything. $5 is a good price, though!

Or maybe I should start with rubbing some compost on my legs, daily?

 

[JPV]

The founder of AOBiome, Dave Whitlock, thinks that the ammonia oxidizing bacteria (AOB) contained in this AO+ spray can treat autism and chronic fatigue syndrome (ref: here).

Yes, apparently they have chosen to sell it as a personal hygiene product while they wait to get FDA approval for marketing it as a health product for these conditions.

I'm very curious to try the spray as I find his theories on NO, and it's purported effects on autism and CFS, to be very compelling. Especially after reading about the success some people have found by boosting Nitric Oxide, with medications like Nitroglycerine, as was proposed by Jay Goldstein.

I may just order it this week. Sucks that they have a 10 week backlog though.

 

[xks201]

Someone order it and report back.

 

[oceiv]

I'd like to try these bacteria, but I'm reluctant to spent $99!

I have to look at this particular product in more depth, but I know that other probiotic soaps have been in use for some time. There are several on Amazon, all much less expensive than $99.

Probiotic soaps on Amazon

What I find unclear is why refraining from shampooing makes a big difference to the AOB populations on your skin. When you shampoo, you only put the shampoo detergent on your head and hair, so why should it affect the rest of your skin? Unless the shampoo detergent run off when you rinse runs down the skin and kills the AOB.

I have never tried probiotic soaps, but do know a little about and have used sulfate-free shampoos (these days showering is extremely difficult, but that's a different story). These shampoos don't have harsh cleansers in them and don't lather. These types of shampoos are called "no poo shampoos." They are known to help some people with psoriasis, itchy scalp and dandruff. No poo shampoos are also very good for dry, curly and wavy hair. I suspect the reason regular shampoo affects the bacteria on the skin is because regular shampoo has very harsh detergent chemicals, which cleanse away both good and bad bacteria and dry out the skin too much. Some people can switch entirely to a no-poo regiment, but others have to use regular shampoo occasionally along with a no poo regiment. There is a lot of info online as to the pros of sulfate-free shampoos and the bad aspects of regular shampoos. One such site is http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/ Cosmetic companies have noticed the popularity of sulfate-free shampoos and even big companies have started offering them. Large cosmetic retailer, Ulta even offers sulfate-free as a search option.

Edit: IOW, shampooing with sulfate-containing shampoo or shampoos with other harsh detergent cleansers does affect both your scalp and other skin on your body, as it washes away.