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Illness progression in chronic fatigue syndrome: a shifting immune baseline

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by worldbackwards, Mar 10, 2016.

  1. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    Don't think we've had this one yet.
    Full paper is here:
    http://bmcimmunol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12865-016-0142-3
     
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  2. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    "Despite these differences in granularity and subgroup definition the subjects we studied in this work appear to display cytokine profiles similar to those found in the larger ME/CFS population studied by Hornig et al., [15]."

    Nice.
     
  3. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    I don't really know but it does seem strange that the long term immune profile is that of exhaustion while simultaneously Rituximab appears to help about 1/2 to 2/3 of patients. Isn't the general belief that autoimmunity comes with increased immune activity? Will autoimmunity have to be redefined?
     
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  4. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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  5. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    "One of the crucial effects of IL-6 is to promote b-lymphocyte maturation into plasma cells and enhance immunoglobulin production"

    Well heellloo!

    A.B: Maybe the apparant exhaustion is the immune system`s way of coping?
     
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  6. Christopher

    Christopher Senior Member

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  7. Marco

    Marco Grrrrrrr!

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  8. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    I don't think there has ever been a reason to think that autoimmunity arises from 'increased activity'. It is a state of inappropriate activity and in general a very specific inappropriate activity. I am not sure I recognise a concept of immune exhaustion in terms of cytokine levels. Attrition of T cells or bone marrow stem cells maybe, but I am not sure why that would have a specific cytokine signature.
     
  9. Marco

    Marco Grrrrrrr!

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    Ineresting that menopause affects the cytokine profile and the authors mention an association with apparent early menopause with ME/CFS. Anecdotally, my mother (who didn't have ME/CFS) complained to her GP fr many years about menopause like symptoms and was dismissed as 'too young'. After more than a decade of this she asked to be investigated for other conditions only to be told 'it's just the menopause'. Ahem!
     
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  10. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    Thanks for claryfing this!
     
  11. MEDad

    MEDad

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    They claim 90% correct prediction rate. All their normalized data is attached in a spreadsheet, so anyone who want to can reanalyze the data. Thats the right spirit! Do you hear me PACE authors?
     
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  12. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    Low IL-6, high IL-8. I am actually beginning to believe this. This is the sort of routine basic replicative work that we need to do to get a foundation. If this pans out we can start speculating from a basis of a true 'signature'. The fact that it does not look like much else we have ever come across is all the better. Signs of inflammation get us nowhere. Signs of something unique are much more likely to.
     
  13. Valentijn

    Valentijn WE ARE KINA

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    Dr de Meirleir routinely tests for IL-8 at least at intake for his patients, and sometimes during treatment (every 6 months?). It's the one that seems to always be super high for his ME patients on PR, especially at intake.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2016
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  14. Tuha

    Tuha Senior Member

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    I was a patient of KDM. I just checked the old tests which he did:
    - IL-8S - 43,11 (0,00 - 15,00 pg/mL)
    - IL-6S - 3,23 (0,00 - 5,00 pg/mL)
     
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  15. Valentijn

    Valentijn WE ARE KINA

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    From my first visit, after having ME for about 3 years:
    IL-8 - 727 (0-15)
    IL-6 - 4 (0-5)

    After 2 years of treatment, my results from a few months ago (on a day where I had unusually bad swelling):
    IL-8 - 465
    IL-6 - 11
     
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  16. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    My IL8 was also high and remains so when tested as a patient of KDM - however I thought the abstract suggested it was high in patients ill less than 2 years, or have I missed something? I have been ill, to varying degrees or 20 years, but the last 7 has been severely. I was tested for IL8 6 years in to my severe relapse.

    This has been my exact experience also. Symptoms from age 35 told too young for menopause - this year at 46 told the same symptoms, which have still not been adequately investigated are just menopause. You honestly just cant win with the NHS can you?

    Also told last week I have 'seen enough' specialists over the past 7 years, so it looks like I am now not allowed to develop any new issues :bang-head:. I have been recently diagnosed, by an NHS consultant, seen priavelty with MCAS, but am not allowed to now be seen by an immunologist on the NHS as I have seen 'enough consultants'.
     
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  17. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    My interleukin 8 in serum, tested by de Meirleir, was 1681 pg/mL [0-15].

    Interleukin 6 in serum was 5 pg/mL [0-5].
     
  18. mermaid

    mermaid Senior Member

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    Well, anecdotally again, my own ME symptoms came on gradually during my earlyish menopause. For around 4 years I put down my various symptoms to the menopause and believed that they would eventually improve. Sadly they didn't and when I acquired a 2nd autoimmune condition at 53 (the first one at 43) they began to slide further down. I am 63 now.
     
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  19. ghosalb

    ghosalb Senior Member

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    Hi Valentijn - after 2 years of treatment....do you feel better now ?
     
  20. Valentijn

    Valentijn WE ARE KINA

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    Yes ... chronic background pain is gone, and I do much better cognitively.
     
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