Choline on the Brain? A Guide to Choline in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
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Illness as Deviance, Work as Glittering Salvation and the Psyching-up etc

Discussion in 'Action Alerts and Advocacy' started by Dx Revision Watch, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. LaurieM


    If that goes back to my comment regarding currer's "Arbeit macht frei" remark, and myself labelling the Tory party with it as there current party slogan, then I stand by it.

    In the Guardian article I was referring to was this: A Department for Work and Pensions spokesman said working could give terminally ill people 'a sense of being useful' to which I left the comment "Arbeit Macht Frei - the new Tory party slogan"

    I totally agree that the other political parties in the UK would make no change to most policy; for instance the Labour party now appears to be attacking Public Service workers by backing the Coalition on cuts. I also know the Labour party originally introduced the ESA and WCA system and then contracted ATOS to do the dirty work.

    However, the current Government have gone much further (too far) in actively pursuing the poor, vulnerable and sick in this county. They seem to take pride in attacking this group whenever they can and making a public case that we are a drain on the economy, whilst trying to do as little as possible to attack their friends - the healthy and wealthy tax avoiders. As I am within the first group and am under attack then why should I not attempt to defend myself and point this out?

    It is not just policy that affects people but the words and methods that are used that make things worse for those that suffer, as it is these words that the unaffected majority eventually believe, in the same way that the unaffected majority are lead to believe that ME is not an illness. And it is Government Ministers who decide what is said publicly and who do the harm, and right wing politicians are clearly adept at this process.
  2. Marco

    Marco Grrrrrrr!

    Near Cognac, France
    OK folks.

    I respect your right to hold and express your views but this is not the place to debate politics and I stand by my view that to blame these 'reforms' on one party or political philosophy only distracts attention from where any proper scrutiny should be directed.

    Also consider what, for a country that considers the NHS as almost the 'state religion', the vast majority would choose if asked in referendum whether the cuts should be made or alternatively that tax is increased by 10p in the .

    Politicians don't always set the tone of the zeitgeist.
  3. currer

    currer Senior Member

    The vast majority get their political views from Murdoch's right wing media empire. They have been encouraged to believe that dismantling the state and low taxation will give them everything they desire. When in actual fact it allows the privatisation and theft of our common assets and the impoverishment of the citizen. Under the banner of "choice".

    Murdoch and the right wing press and massive business interests which are outside the control of our political systems have set the tone of the zeitgeist to the detriment of the interests of the citizens of ALL countries for far too long.

    And then to pretend that somehow the individual has "choice"!
    We have no political options any longer, label them what you like, liberal or right wing, they are both equally unable to control huge multinational industries which are more powerful than our national governments and control them and their policies.
    jeffrez likes this.
  4. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

    And my last word...

    I did not say it is all one side's fault. I am saying that one side is worse than the other for people in our situation. Important difference, though perhaps not currently a very clear or meaningful one in the UK, in particular.

    If you think people in our position in life are going to get a better deal from the Tony Abbotts of the world, or even just no worse than the one we currently get...

    Well, good luck with that.
  5. currer

    currer Senior Member

    For example;-

    In October 2011 the UK privatised energy firms increased their profit margin to 125 per customer (!) from 15 in June 2011.
    The privatised companies act as a cartel, keeping prices artificially high to justify their obscene profits.
    There is no advantage to the customer in switching supplier. Our governments are powerless to control this monopoly by the privatised industries.

    That is modern choice.
  6. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    People understand the danger and horror of the jackboot, the gulag, the gas chamber and the auto-da-fe
    They understand the dangers of extreme religion and politcs
    They do not understand as yet, the greatest and most terrible horror we've ever built, are the corporations.

    The other things we have learned are terrors only by long, hard experience and atrocities, and many, MANY dumb assholes eagerly supported them even while monstrous acts occured around them:
    • the British Empire waged war on China to force them to buy British opium to encourage addiction and thus profit and thus eventually the Boxer Rebllion that killed 20 million Chinese and on unto the heroin scourge today, (and as I said elsehwere, it was Britain who are partially responsible for Al-Qeda, the East India Company sold cannons to the Wahhabists in the 1700s, while rest of Islam was trying to bump those extremists off)
    • People eagerly supported the extermination of the natice American population and it's military often took scalps from those they killed (fact, not that the British also didn't commit atrocities by the way, everyone's as bad as each other)
    • folk supported "Stalin's" modernization of medieval-like Russia while millions starved in the Ukraine (he didn't "do" anything but act like a brutal thug, beyond just the commonly known death toll, a huge amount of accidents and disasters were down to him terrorizing or killing engineers etc who tried to warn of problems or fix things and thus "upset" him or antagonize his paranoia/megalomania)
    • Germans thought good riddance to the socialists, trade unionists, Jews and others (a great many of course, did not think such, but if you said otherwise, hey, "Night & Fog" came for you)
    • and everyone knew witches spread disease and curses so had to be burned out...

    Sigh :/

    Politics and religion co-exist and relate with their cultures. They feed off/affect each other, the community mores and acceptable conduct affect them.
    For weal OR woe.
    For example:
    No tyrant, unless mad, wants ot wipe out his own people, oh sure, massacre those who oppose him, or to make examples, but killing the ones who make your power, wealth or armies is stupid.
    Corporations though, only care about the next damn Quarterly Profits!!! Huge and critical difference between them and politcs/religion, they are NOT beholden to the "community" because the "communioty" is the bloody corporation!
    The sons of bitches eagerly worked on contracts for the gas chambers, Zyklon B and early form of computerized data for the Holocaust (IBM!), and all kinds of horrors before and since then.

    As folk are beginning to grasp, the corporations are not limited by shareholders, often now, the shareholders are other corproations or the execs themselves, so they do not give a damn, vote thmselves disgusting pay rises as others suffer and will send the Human Race to destruction in their insane lust for wealh and power without care.
    They live in gated mansions, have bomb proof cars and armed guards drive them around, own your politicians, so what do they know or care for YOU and your family?

    Think I'm kidding? See the banks...see phrama corps....see Monsanto and genetically modified crops
    (GM food not a problem some say? BOLLOCKS, anyone with half a brain knew the simple risk: cross pollination by unknowns into our vital food supply, and it's happening already despite what those assclowns claimed).
    I'm not some idiot, I know science and technological advancement are valid and essential, but these assclowns are so divorced from the result of their actions, they make the arrogant inhumanity of the Dukes of old seem positively benign!

    And part of this, is are the "Weasels", they are the "enablers" the bullshit artists.
    Remember "The Wizard of Oz"?
    "Just ignore the litte man behind the curtain!"
    that is what the Weasels are doing, pulling the damn wool over everyones' eyes.
    See "Junk Science" and vast number of other such pundits, paid-for-pressure-groups, lobbyists (who exploded 10 fold under Reagan's term and are the worst parasites on the US body-politik) and so on.
    left or Right does not matter (thought he corproates ARE tied mostly to the Right due to pretending to be normal businesses), corporations are not "Capitalism", they are sodding Oligarchies who try and create monopolies, huge difference!!
    Adam Smith even warned about this crap, as did others.

    This is not about "normal" politics, folk have been fed propaganda deluxe by these bozos for decades that "Corporations and money is God, Father & Mother" instead of tools for our betterment and limiting the bozos :/
    Sure as hell wasn't Goldmann Sachs or Monsanto who wrote the US Bill of Rights or Magna Carta, fought at Caen, Monte Cassino or Iwo Jima
    wasn't those bozos who invented penicillin, manned flight etc.
    Some monsters are just so damn big, so damn pervasive, that their horror isn't obvious to most.
    World War II death toll: 100 million
    Death toll from tobacco up to 2000: 100 million. Estimated 1 billion by 2100.
    Pray tell me, if some evil scumbags got war wage on 'em because they killed 3000, why don't we wage war on those who kill millions, hm?
    PROFIT, that's why.

    jeffrez likes this.
  7. DaiWelsh


    Actually IIUC the biggest shareholders by far are the pension funds, which means that ironically it is ordinary working folks that are still the largest shareholders, but indirectly and they do not have any realistic direct control over those holdings. Instead the pension funds are controlled by fund managers in the city whose salaries are set based on an average of corporate executives salaries, whose salaries are "controlled" by the votes of shares held by said fund managers. Add to that the non-exec directors in a circle of mutual back-scratching and cronyism.

    While I struggle to fully embrace some of your more florid theories silverblade (no disrespect meant to your opinion and they are generally entertaining anyway), I have to agree with this point. I think the decrease of individual shareholders and increase in proxy (in the broadest sense) holdings is a key issue with the lack of ethics in current corporate governance.
    *GG* likes this.
  8. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    A factor that needs to be taken into account is the philosophy behind economic rationalism, which took off in the 1980s. Efficiency at all costs - if its not efficient, cut spending. Its not outcomes based, its cost based. When we lose sight of outcomes, and only look at the dollars, all sorts of despicable policies start looking good. It does not matter which side of politics you are from, if you excessively embrace economic rationalism I think it leads to damage to society. Economic rationalism has its place, but it must be remembered that either economic systems serve society or they have no purpose. Bye, Alex
    currer likes this.

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