Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by Robin, Apr 2, 2010.
Very well said, Shane. I feel the same way.
I just spoke to the guys at my local samosa centre and they have confirmed that XMRV is the cause of ME. So that is a closed case.
You know, I'm going to throw this out there and leave it as is as I'm not stating this to debate Dr. Singh said/ what it meant. But I did want to point out something about people from other backgrounds in the US.
Just because she's Indian doesn't mean she doesn't understand American English. The woman came here for her Ph.D. in 1987 so she's been in the US for 23 years. I happen to have some close friends who are Eastern Indian who have lived in the US for many years. Their English is not that different from many US native speakers though they might have an accent and in fact, is sometimes better than many US native speakers.
I am someone who was not born in the US and English happens to be my second language. But I have been speaking English since I was four and were you to not see me in person, you would assume that I was a native English speaker. I have no accent. Despite this, when people see me, they often remark how good my English is, especially in less ethnically diverse areas of the US. I am not offended but I usually then explain my story.
I'd like like to see Singh team up with someone like Klimas. Klimas has tons of experience with anti-retrovirals. She would be a person who could offer suggestions about which medications to test first. Probably the ones with the least amount of side-effects.
What Hope said.
Let's take people "at face value" for what they have to offer. I am extremely thankful for Dr Singh's contribution in XMRV research and i think she has more to say.
I also think that people tend to take everything word for word. In this case she was speaking for television. It's not easy! Like most scientists, she probably knows more than she can say and we are eager for answers now. She's a scientis not a tv personnality (though she's done extremely well).
Thanks for the nice find, Robin.
Good way to end this
You gotta give Flex credit for his 'finds'.
And not only that he tells us his sources (sauces?) too.
Nice one Flex.
You the man.
I didn't say she didn't understand American English. I meant she may be using words differently than certain people have chosen to interpret them. This can even happen between a speaker and a listener who are from the same place and speak with same dialect.
Look up the word "can" on Merriam-Webster and you will see this:
"sometimes used interchangeably with may"
But that is beside the point. Chastising someone because one didn't like their semantics hardly seems appropriate.
Thanks for saving the day by finding what I missed out on doing.
I used to go out with a bird from Belgium who'd pronounce womb with the B and she'd refer to any problem she had as a wound.
Did you notice Glaxo now owns 85% of HIV drug entity?
"Glaxo and Pfizer Inc. combined their HIV-drug units last year, with British company owning 85 percent of the resulting entity, Viiv Healthcare."
Did any of you notice this - probably not a coincidence that Glaxo has become involved??
Big Grin! Most amusing story, well told! I don't know which bit tickles me more, that I could visualize the whole scene and the cleverness of the anecdote, or that to Brits one can have Steak for "Tea."
I think that it's genuinely refreshing when someone who's doing good work can just be allowed to say what they want to say - without spin, without media training and without putting any over-complication in the message.
This is what Dr. Singh actually said "It can cause prostate cancer and an neuroimmune illness chronic fatigue syndrome."
We should take it at face value - and be happy (?) !! - or at least until such time as more information comes along. Be patient for a little while longer. The problem is that we are all desperate for good news & therefore so impatient for every crumb of evidence that helps us.
In my opinion, if anybody really does feel the need to let off steam, just do it, but direct it at the common enemy ......... you know who i mean !!!!
Dr Singh possibly used one word in the wrong place namely can instead of may.
Now the psychos have used thousands of misleading and scientifically inappropiate words.
it would be nice to have those words challenged with equal gusto.They are often all the enemy.
In fact instead of being challenged their words are accepted and propagated by supposedly advocative bodies of various hues and colours
Thank you, spindrift
To (almost) everyone else:
I've been sick for a long time and never before have so many great researchers taken this illness so seriously, and actually been excited about studying us! It's like the last six months or so have been the industrial revolution of CFS research. Things are finally happening. Who cares if she said "can", "might" or "may"! It doesn't matter. Because really? I'm f#cking grateful to Ila Singh for even caring at all! Researching CFS can do the same thing to people's careers that has been done to this thread! grrrr!
Let's have more of this!
Images blatently "borrowed" from http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/. give her some page hits, she's awesome!
My sentiments exactly Robin!!!
:Sign Good one::Sign Good Job:
ok, I have sat on the sidelines on this because I didn't want to get jumped. But I am going to come to Kurt's defense.
In my view, Kurt's questioning whether a scientist misspoke or is making a claim for which the rest of the scientific community does not yet accept is perfectly legitimate, especially when such a statement is made on T.V. news. From the rest of the world's view, including Kurt's, the evidence has not determined that conclusively yet.
I would not put Kurt on ignore. And Kurt, I have no problem with your criticisms or questioning of the scientific claims or conclusions patients are drawing, although I am much more convinced than you are. I don't know if there is some emotional / personal reason you don't want to believe or if suspicion is just your nature or maybe you have been burned before. Either way, I look forward to one of us being proven wrong. At this point, I hope it is you. In the mean time, keep challenging me and the scientists. (By the way, I do know there is much personal / emotional motivation for believing, even for me. But I am trying my best to look at it objectively. We will just have to see where the chips fall when the fat lady sings.)
Now, as for looking at it from Singh's point of view, as I said in another thread, those who have been looking at XMRV under a microscope are twenty chapters ahead of us and other researchers. The other researchers may not believe what others say happens in the book since they have not read it themselves, only being on chapter one, but for those who are on chapter 20, even though they have not finished the book, they do know more of what is in the book.
Since October, no doubt, Singh has been looking at XMRV in Bateman's samples or other CFS samples. Surely she spends her days looking at XMRV in some samples somewhere eight hours a day. And when you see it, you are a believer. It may not be published, but that doesn't mean it isn't so from her view of the evidence she has seen. Publications may be coming within the next six months. Same for Mikovitz and Peterson. They have moved on to cancer, autism, XMRV in CFs in other countries, drugs, etc. They are not looking for it in CFS samples, they found it. Showed pictures of it. It's there. The question has been answered for them.
And as for cause and effect, they are relying on their experience with other retroviruses and what they see under the microscope as to the behavior of this virus. Remember, they have been looking at this virus for months, years under a microscope, since 2006. Others are just looking at it within the last six months. So it is only natural Singh, Mikovitz and Peterson know more than the others.
Imagine a few people (Peterson, Mikovitz, Singh, CC and NCI) with jig saw puzzles but each one has the same image and same pieces. These few individuals start putting the pieces together to their own puzzle. Some of them help each other. They don't have any picture on a box to go by. But they are jig saw experts. They have been working jig saw puzzles for decades. As they put some pieces together, they know how to do it efficiently, quickly, etc. So within a short time, they may not have all the pieces, but they can tell you what items are in the picture when jig saw puzzle is finished. They have all the pieces put together except just a few.
Now, some others come in later with the same puzzle image, each with their own puzzle to put together. These don't have all the experience that the first ones do. So they make lots of mistakes along the way as they try to put together their own puzzles. Not to mention, they started putting together their puzzles much later than the earlier ones. The earlier experts say, "The image in the puzzle is _________." The newer ones say, "I will have to put together my own puzzle before I believe that's what the image is. I don't see it. How can they be sure? These others that started working on the puzzle at the same time as me don't know for sure. The first jig saw puzzle people shouldn't make such a claim until some of us new comers see it too. It's premature to make such a conclusion because I haven't seen it and those with me haven't seen it yet."
Problem is, the earlier ones saw it with their own eyes. Although they hadn't finished their puzzle, they put in many more pieces, enough for them to draw conclusions and be sure of what the image is. Not to mention, they have lots of experience with jig saw puzzles since they have been putting together jig saw puzzles for years. They know the pattern.
The wonderful thing about this is we can add another scientist who is linking cause and effect to CFS. And she is not associated with WPI.
Peterson, Silverman, Mikovitz and now Singh. (Even if she misspoke, she obviously believes XMRV likely causes CFS and prostate cancer based on her analogy with the other retrovirus causing both.) She has moved on to drugs instead of validation. Evidently, whether it is a yet to be published study she did, or just what she has seen in unstructured tests she did for her own questioning or she believes previous study after looking at it through her expert eyes.
Up until this news report, all who were claiming or insinuating that XMRV causes CFS were connected to WPI and the first study. So Singh, who studies this virus independently, also now is making the same claims, either implicitly or by insinuation. In other words, she is a believer based on her own judgment and evidence she has seen.
Joy, love the Celebration video. Sometimes Youtube says it better than our own words. I love using Youtube to communicate. Now there are two of us.
im' with ya Robin
i'm new here, & i come for info. if someone starts somethin i put em on ignore. what Kurt said didn't bother me. he said it worried him & that is fine. i choose to believe she's just sayin what she knows to be true, Singh that is. & i love it. no BS, no jerkin around. finally.
i'm here because the people here seem smart & seem to know stuff, but arguing & bickering dont' help.
"you may say that i'm a dreamer, but i'm not the only one..."
no your not - a lot of people seem to be reading a lot into the odd word and new studys/progressions - I hope I'm wrong but it looks to me like some people want this so much they will see anything as a positive sign or even confirmation it's all over bar publication - it's not over yet - dont put all your emotional eggs in one basket is all I'm saying
nicely played my friend....nicely played indeed.
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