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Ila Singh commentary on detection in journal "Viruses"

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by urbantravels, Nov 3, 2010.

  1. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    I think it was a multi-purpose article; it took researchers to task for not employing the best methods; it informed them what they are, it told them - guess what my more definitive study is something to look forward to (and here's why), and it supported patients :). Nice
  2. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    I've actually just heard that that is so - haven't actually seen anything on it (or looked)

    Here's an interesting article on infection and inflammation and depression

    http://psychcentral.com/news/2009/04/01/chronic-infection-may-spawn-depression/5079.html

    and here's West Nile Virus induced depression by the CDC. The CFS team at the CDC does believe inflammation and immune activation plays a role in CFS - they just don't research it. They are tied in with Emory doing studies that interferon activation induces 'sickness behavior' - fatigue, muscle pains, fluey sensations, etc.

    http://www.cdc.gov/eid/content/13/3/479.htm
  3. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Check this out as well - from the same link above

  4. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Lets not get stuck on mood disorders, check out this on RA

  5. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Back to mood disorders but I was so skinny I was diagnosed with anorexia nervosa

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10933123

    Anorexia nervosa (AN) is a serious illness with no definitive treatment. Clinical and research evidence led to the hypothesis that some children with AN may have a pediatric autoimmune neuropsychiatric disorder associated with streptococcus (PANDAS), similar in pathogenesis to other hypothesized PANDAS disorders.

    There's also a question about lupus and other autoimmune disorders

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1257453/?tool=pubmed

    Diseases such as type I diabetes mellitus, lupus erythematosus, myocarditis, rheumatoid arthritis, and multiple sclerosis often manifest themselves in association with microbial infection.
  6. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    All interesting stuff, Cort - I think depression is interesting in this context because unless it's immediate and profound (say, 24-hour onset concurrent with acute onset viral symptoms) it must be hard for researchers to separate endogenous from reactive depression; and in terms of treatment, I wonder if aetiology (infectious agent vs psychological factors) would affect which treatments would be expected to be effective. Interesting for us as PWC, of course, since depression can be both a symptom of ME/CFS and a reaction to the circumstances of being so ill. Makes it all the more interesting that other conditions traditionally viewed as having a psychological origin such as anorexia or BPD are getting linked to infectious onset.

    I bet this will be an interesting decade for psychiatry/clinical psychology. I wonder what territory they'll be left with at the end of it!
  7. pictureofhealth

    pictureofhealth XMRV - L'Agent du Jour

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    There is also the 'psychiatric' condition Schizophrenia which was linked by one researcher to a cat virus/parasite I remember reading several years ago. I don't know if this research ever 'panned out' or was followed up.
    I don't think psychiatry has anything to gain by conducting biomedical research into what have been come to be considered psychiatric conditions - hence our dilemma.
    I think many patients over the years have suffered by assumptions made by professionals who buy into the prevailing theory of the day, and then there is no incentive for them to look further afield for a better explanation. As usual, the patients carry the burden of this.

    That is why it is so wonderful to have clear headed and bright scientists working with us now, such as Judy Mikovits, Vincent Lombardi, Ila Singh and the Ruscettis. They are not prepared to accept the general consensus simply because its convenient and universally 'agreed'. They are asking questions, which is what scientists did in the good old days before political interference.
  8. pictureofhealth

    pictureofhealth XMRV - L'Agent du Jour

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  9. urbantravels

    urbantravels disjecta membra

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    No such thing as "the good old days" in this regard, I'm afraid.
  10. usedtobeperkytina

    usedtobeperkytina Senior Member

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    Interesting that Freud's influence made shift to think much of unexplained conditions were from childhood experiences.

    Now, the shift is to look for more organic disease causes for those still not explained and those previously thought to be from childhood experiences.

    Also, remember that in US, many who have been diagnosed with depression actually have CFS. So some of that research of depression will likely includes CFS folks.

    I know a person who was diagnosed as having CFS here. She went to Florida. Two docs said, "No you have depression." So she enters a study there on depression. She had severe and continuous reaction to drug. Half-way through the study, they pulled her from the study, telling her they can't tell her what she has, because they don't have specialty to diagnose it. But they told her she doesn't have depression.

    Tina
  11. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    We just don't frigging fit anywhere. The heart abnormalities apparently confuse cardiologists, the 'mood' problems confuse psychologists. I was told by my doctor that I was depressed; he sent me to a psychologist who, after talking to me for 15 minutes, said "I've met alot of depressed people and you, my friend, are not depressed" '
    They need a whole category for us and FM and people with these types of disorders.
  12. glenp

    glenp "and this too shall pass"

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    I think that pretty well sums it up. geeeez

    I bet there are many who "qualify" and are seeing psychiatrists for panic attacks, when in fact it is dysautonomia. When they find that out???? Bye bye psychiatrist
  13. Jemal

    Jemal Senior Member

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    I don't think it's rocket science to figure out if someone is depressed or not. I am not a doctor, but I can easily see differences between depressed people and people with CFS. Depressed people don't really care about their life or work, as most people with CFS want to be able to enjoy life again and work. They are fighting the disease every step. When they get sicker and sicker, of course they get depressed...

    I saw a doctor at work for about 15 minutes and the only thing we did was talk. Her evaluation was that I was clearly physically ill and that the mental component was caused by the illness. I really don't think it's that difficult to diagnose.
  14. Cloud

    Cloud Guest

    Gotta go with Jemal on this. Depression is very easy to diagnose and to differentiate from ME/CFS. The difference is very clear and not at all vague and overlapping....and this is true for depression that's secondary to the illness, or even co-morbid. If any practitioner were to take enough initiative to educate themselves properly, they would easily be able to differentiate depression from ME/CFS. Of course proper education involves stepping outside their comfort zone of lazy, complacent apathy following outdated and incorrect information.
  15. pictureofhealth

    pictureofhealth XMRV - L'Agent du Jour

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    It is possible of course that the common link between ME/CFS, depression, fibro, heart conditions and neuro conditions is = inflammation, ie the natural attempt of the body to heal and rewire itself. We have been used to dividing medical conditions into this one and that one and creating medical specialities, but the difference may not be so much between them all and the link may be inflammation. The difficulty is that the 'cure' is also the problem. Wherever you have inflammation you have pain, reduced function and disturbance of sleep etc.

    The question for me, I suppose, is why is a process which is supposed to protect and heal the body so damaging and not self limiting? And why do some people get inflammation in one part of the body (eg arteries, as in coronary artery disease) and others get it elsewhere (joints, as in arthritis, brain as in ME, connective tissue as in - forgotten name of condition! etc). Is it genetic weakness that makes one area of the body vulnerable as opposed to another, or perhaps a retrovirus or other immune system anatagonist preferring a particular organ, or a general stirring up of the immune system, or physical trauma, or ageing wear & tear, or a bit of everything? What are we missing here?

    I think also in the greater evolutionary scheme of things, these illnesses indicate that we have reached the limits of the human organism in being able to repair itself and regenerate health. We are not as evolved as we might like to be. Most of us don't age in perfect health for eg we gradually deteriorate. A lot of this is due to inflammation and free radicals. Diet is not the whole answer, nor is environment.

    Perhaps the next step will be an evolutionary biological one for the body - as huge as the change in walking on all fours to becoming bipeds and the increase in the size of the human brain as a result?
    If the human organism can not evolve and solve this inflammatory riddle, it will not survive.
  16. Jemal

    Jemal Senior Member

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    The condition CFS might also be caused by the immune system, not the virus per se. CFS could be a state you reach when your immune system wakes up and realises that a virus has infected mayor parts of your body and starts a full out attack, causing inflammation.
  17. omerbasket

    omerbasket Senior Member

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    I wonder: Was she diagnosed with depression by a psychiatrist?
  18. usedtobeperkytina

    usedtobeperkytina Senior Member

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    I don't know, honestly.

    Tina

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